[AloRaptor]

This is on the label of my moly 60.



*coats metal surfaces with a long lasting film

*lubricates bearings,gears,and all metal sliding parts

*recommended for Honda pro-link suspension systems

*use for driveshaft splines and other final drive components

*use where moly 45 grease is recommended



FYI keep it off of plastic.

 

[edinlr]

Wow, this post opened up as many views as "the best oil for a CX" does. I got out my 650 Turbo manual to see what it called for. There is a lube chart that I have referred to during builds and it does not mention the Honda Moly (probably before its time). It calls for a moly "grease" for the final drive splines and the flange splines. It calls for a 45% moly "paste" (such as Moly cote or Rocol Paste) on the shockbushings and linkage pivots. It uses silicone grease on the brake pivots. All the rest of the bike uses "regular" grease on the swingarm, wheel bearings, brake pedal, side and center stand, and speedo gear. As Bob said, there are much better options to use now and the moly grease mentioned above would probably fare better than just "grease". Also using fork oil instead of the specified ATF fluid gives more control and better feel.



On the Honda Moly 60 Paste tube it says to use for drive shaft components, pro link suspension, and "where Moly 45 grease is recommended". So even Honda's accessory side is using grease and paste interchangeably.

 

[edinlr]

Interesting discussion. Is the Moly 60 recommendation based on fact, or is it yet another Internet legend?



In this earlier thread, my rear end woes were discussed. Mike Nixon's Final Drive Alignment article was referenced in that thread.



The article states on pages 14 and 15 that Honda mandated the use of "high-zoot 45 percent Moly (later to be upgraded to 60 percent)" in a campaign to correct problems with the Goldwing's final drive. A photograph of a tube of Moly 60 is prominently displayed along with the text.



Mike is widely recognized as an authority on Honda motorcycles so I tend not to dismiss his recommendations lightly. Although it would be nice to have a reference back to the specific source where he obtained the information.

Dave, thanks for Mike Nixon's article. That clears a lot of the issues and makes more sense of the changes that Honda recommended. I will have to remember to use that assembly sequence in the future.

 

[Sidecar Bob]

Remember that the product labels are written by the sales department but the shop manuals are written by engineering. I don't know about you, but I know which one I would believe.....

 

[AloRaptor]

I would imagine that both are written by technical writers.

 

[Andy62]

This is very good conversation. I have also wondered all the time what should I put on the splines. I read always first FSM and believe in it. Last time I used just normal lithium based multipurpose grease, just what I had in my garage. Now I have lithium based moly fortified too. So, that next time.



Andy62

 

[Shep]

The original Honda recommendation was Lithium grease.I've always used Molygrease but now use high content Moly paste on the splines and then Molygrease on top of that

The main thing is to clean off and refresh the grease every time you have the rear wheel off and not just leave the old grease on there as all lubricants get tired.

 

[Sidecar Bob]

I would imagine that both are written by technical writers.

Right. And if you believe that I have some land for sale and its only a mile south of Toronto

FWIW, my GoldWing had almost 100,000 Km on it the last time I had the rear wheel off and the splines were in like new condition. For over 70,000 of that I used whatever flavour of grease I happened to have on hand, usually ordinary wheel bearing grease, and never noticed the moly requirement. When I started seeing moly mentioned on the forums and I looked more closely at the FSM and bought some NLGI No. 2 lithium based grease with molybdenum.

 

[CXPHREAK]

I personally think the moly requirement is mainly to allow for owner neglect as the moly will continue to lubricate for extended periods, even if dried out. I use loctite 65% moly paste.



BUT, I think that if the splines are regreased at each service there will be minimal wear anyway even if only using wheel bearing grease. Much like the argument for cheap engine oil with frequent changes.



I am going through some bikes and parts aquired recently and the splines in all of them are dry and shagged to the max through sheer neglect.



I am also working on one with 19 thousand odd kilometers genuine milage at the moment and can see what a near new one looks like, - I moly greased it yesterday. I'll post some pics later when I upload my camera if they come out.



Here's one worth having, the rest are a bit blurry. If your bikes final drive hasn't been cleaned and greased in living memory DO IT, DO IT, DO IT NOW!







Guess which one's from this bike. It's an 81 shadow.

 

[tudawgz]

Where else besides this magnificent forum could one find such interesting discussion..... an eclectic mix of information based upon technical data, real-time life experience, personal preference, and anecdotal evidence?



Strange as it may seem...... quite enjoyable!



KUDO's to all!!



FWIW...after almost 50 years on 2 wheels, a lifetime with heavy agricultural and industrial equipment, and 40+ years in industry...my personal experience is that regular maintenance, meticulously performed, will prevent almost any woe....

 

[Randall-in-Mpls]

In this earlier thread, my rear end woes were discussed. Mike Nixon's Final Drive Alignment article was referenced in that thread.

On page 22, Mike says, "On the Wing and on the smaller V4s, you will need to also apply the moly lube to the driven flange's pins." Is this true of our CXs and GLs, as well? I thought the GW wheel had the same bolted-on flange.



This supplemental instruction from Honda sounds like it might be the origin of the "Swedish method" of aligning the rear wheel that I heard recommended to help alleviate brake squeal.





Bob - This won't appear in the FSM. It was supplemental info from Honda, and only peripherally referenced to our models.



Page 16:

"Interestingly, what has surfaced in the years since is that this situation was not limited to just the Gold Wing but was also present in the other drive shaft machines made by Honda during the same period. This includes the CX/GL series and the many models of shaft-driven V4s."



Just as the marketing department writes the label on the Moly60 paste, the "Damage Control Department" would seek to minimize the bad press of such a weakness. Honda wouldn't admit to the problem existing on models about which there weren't a loud, wide-spread complaint.





R

 

[Sidecar Bob]

FWIW...after almost 50 years on 2 wheels, a lifetime with heavy agricultural and industrial equipment, and 40+ years in industry...my personal experience is that regular maintenance, meticulously performed, will prevent almost any woe....

Amen to that. Which grease you use is probably much less important than whether you use any grease.



Re"Swedish method": I am sure I read about that in a manual somewhere, possibly the Haynes GL1000 book. All I know is that I can't remember whether I started doing it that way before or after I found the Swedish forum (that this one is directly descended from) but I have been doing it that way for a long time.

 

[Randall-in-Mpls]

Re"Swedish method": I am sure I read about that in a manual somewhere, possibly the Haynes GL1000 book. All I know is that I can't remember whether I started doing it that way before or after I found the Swedish forum (that this one is directly descended from) but I have been doing it that way for a long time.

According to Nixon, this procedure was directed by Honda at the same time they changed the required spline lube to Moly60 (for the GL1100, at least.)





R

 

[DanCX500]

According to Nixon, this procedure was directed by Honda at the same time they changed the required spline lube to Moly60 (for the GL1100, at least.)





R

It's an interesting procedure to compensate for poor manufacturing tolerances. It would be interesting to find a method to measure the amount the drive shaft housing sets the splines out of parallel from the wheel. After that measurement is found, machine the facing of the housing to set the splines parallel. (just a wild thought!

)

 

[lt1]

I have used Honda Moly 60 on several shaft-drive bikes for years and highly recommend it. While it is probably true that you can get by with lesser products if your maintenance intervals are relatively frequent, it is incorrect to recommend against the Moly 60. The higher performance/hp involved, the more important it is to have the high moly content.

 

[Sidecar Bob]

It never occurred to me that the swingarms could be out of true, but tightening the axle before the final drive nuts in order to pull the drive & wheel into alignment always made sense to me.



The holes in the swingarm must be slightly larger than the studs in the final drive to allow for manufacturing tolerances and make assembly easier. This means that, even if the swingarm is absolutely perfectly assembled, it is possible for the final drive to be installed slightly out of perpendicular (IE tilted in or out at the top). This would cause the same sort of accelerated wear as shown in Mike's pictures for exactly the same reason.



But as I said before, my 650's splines were destroyed by dirt that got into the grease because of a failed o-ring. The grease went in smooth but when I cleaned it out it felt like valve grinding compound.

 

[Meltd0wn]

The FSM says "Lubricate the splines of the final driven flange and the O-ring with lithium-based MULTIPURPOSE NLGI No. 2 (molybdenum disulfide additive) GREASE"[/b][/u][/size]Moly 60 is an assembly paste, intended to provide lubrication of a rebuilt engine until oil is pumped there after the engine has been started. It is not intended for long term lubrication.
BTW: I had to replace the spline flange on Eccles' back wheel last year but it was not because of the grease I used. The o-ring had failed and grit got into the grease. Checking the condition of the o-ring is much more important than using a specific grease.
Acetone looks like water only a little thinner, but I wouldn't recommend using it to quench your thirst.
Read the label. Most brake grease is primarily silicone because it has to be able to withstand high temps without melting. As the FSM says, the splines need a lithium based grease because of the high loads.[/QUOTE]

Finally, the printed voice of sanity. Internet folklore is pervasive and annoying. I often wonder where erroneous information gets its roots. NLGI sets the standards for lubricating greases. #2 grease is regular consistency grease. With that in mind, The moly lithium grease from Walmart is perfectly suitable for lubricating the splines and final driven flange. I've been using the good ol' green antifreeze from Walmart in my Valkyrie for 8 years, and I haven't lost a pump or a head gasket yet. This is what happens when only moly 60 paste is used as the spline lubrication on the Valkyrie propeller shaft.

 

[CXPHREAK]

Lithium grease will do the job well enough.... provided the thing is actually kept lubed.

The moly will continue to protect even if allowed to dry out.

You have a choice, but that doesn't mean either choice is wrong.

My bikes are well maintained but I still use the moly.

Why? Because I use it on other peoples CXs I work on as I don't know when {if ever} this will ever be serviced again. IMHO I would be cheapskating my own bike to use less than I use on others bikes. My bike has 7 years use in my ownership with no change to the degree of wear of the driven flange.

Remember, the driven flanges are NLA and the used supply will one day dry up.

 

[Mallett]

The FSM says "Lubricate the splines of the final driven flange and the O-ring with lithium-based MULTIPURPOSE NLGI No. 2 (molybdenum disulfide additive) GREASE"[/b][/u][/size]Moly 60 is an assembly paste, intended to provide lubrication of a rebuilt engine until oil is pumped there after the engine has been started. It is not intended for long term lubrication.
BTW: I had to replace the spline flange on Eccles' back wheel last year but it was not because of the grease I used. The o-ring had failed and grit got into the grease. Checking the condition of the o-ring is much more important than using a specific grease.
Acetone looks like water only a little thinner, but I wouldn't recommend using it to quench your thirst.
Read the label. Most brake grease is primarily silicone because it has to be able to withstand high temps without melting. As the FSM says, the splines need a lithium based grease because of the high loads.

Finally, the printed voice of sanity. Internet folklore is pervasive and annoying. I often wonder where erroneous information gets its roots. NLGI sets the standards for lubricating greases. #2 grease is regular consistency grease. With that in mind, The moly lithium grease from Walmart is perfectly suitable for lubricating the splines and final driven flange. I've been using the good ol' green antifreeze from Walmart in my Valkyrie for 8 years, and I haven't lost a pump or a head gasket yet. This is what happens when only moly 60 paste is used as the spline lubrication on the Valkyrie propeller shaft.


View attachment 28524 [/QUOTE]

Meltd0wn, Honda Moly 60 was never intended to be used on the propeller shaft....it is lubed from the final drive oil...I put a light coat of CV joint lube (6% moly) on the shaft & in the pinoin cup before assembling...sloppy wet ever time I pull it out....Moly 60 is for the final drive splines. My 99 Valkyrie has over a 100k on it...all splines still look new...I service mine ever 10k.

 

[reclinedrelic]

So Mallet you do use Moly 60 on the final drive splines?