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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there any way to tell what the source of water in your oil is?

The engine has 95 psi compression on one side and 105 on the other.

The bike has 18,XXX miles on it.

If I drop the lump and pull the rear cover can I tell if the water pump oil seal is it?

Am I in for head gaskets and the water pump oil seal?

The engine has to come out for a cam chain anyway.

Is it better to just scrap it and get a replacement engine at this point?

Thanks for the help.
 

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Is there any way to tell what the source of water in your oil is?

The engine has 95 psi compression on one side and 105 on the other.

The bike has 18,XXX miles on it.

If I drop the lump and pull the rear cover can I tell if the water pump oil seal is it?

Am I in for head gaskets and the water pump oil seal?

The engine has to come out for a cam chain anyway.

Is it better to just scrap it and get a replacement engine at this point?

Thanks for the help.
bit early for that Tony.

explain how you went about your commpression test.the results are close to each other,if a little low.

the only real source of water,is from a head gasket[which i doubt] or the pump seal.

just pull the lump,lets see what you have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
bit early for that Tony.

explain how you went about your compression test.the results are close to each other,if a little low.

the only real source of water,is from a head gasket[which i doubt] or the pump seal.

just pull the lump,lets see what you have.


Compression run with throttle open and choke cable pushed all the way in.

With the choke pulled out and throttle wide open they are:

Right 60

Left 90

Please do not ask how I know...





Yeah I am thinking that the cost of a new motor might be more cost effective than the repairs of this one.
 

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One check that sometimes provides useful information is to remove the timing inspection plug and inspect the flywheel while slowly turning the engine crankshaft by hand. If you see coolant drops on the flywheel or a tell-tale rust trail on it, it's fairly certain the water pump mechanical seal has gone bad.



Normally the weep hole will provide a safe outlet for the coolant in the event of a seal failure. Is your weep hole plugged?



Those compression numbers are very low. Another engine may well be in your future.



Edit: Why are there two sets of readings? The first ones did not seem that bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
One check that sometimes provides useful information is to remove the timing inspection plug and inspect the flywheel while slowly turning the engine crankshaft by hand. If you see coolant drops on the flywheel or a tell-tale rust trail on it, it's fairly certain the water pump mechanical seal has gone bad.



Normally the weep hole will provide a safe outlet for the coolant in the event of a seal failure. Is your weep hole plugged?



Those compression numbers are very low. Another engine may well be in your future.



Edit: Why are there two sets of readings? The first ones did not seem that bad.


Dave,

I was a idiot and took the lower set with the choke pulled out.

I was surprised how much of a difference it made so I triple checked and they stayed consistent.

Choke out lower numbers choke in higher numbers.

The engine was cold.



Good idea on looking for coolant or rust.

When I bought the bike it was a non-running bike with no coolant in it.

When I looked at the oil before I bought the bike it was clean and new looking.

Should have told me something.

I think $400 was WAY too much to pay...

Hind sight and all.
 

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Tony, I would suspect your compression numbers will go up about 25% or more when you get a chance to check it with a warm engine. So maybe you don't have much of a compression problem. If you can do a leak down test, that would help pinpoint the problem if there is one.



As Dave mentioned, check that someone hasn't plugged up the weep hole. A little coolant seepage past the water seal will contaminate the oil thru the rear oil seal if the weep hole has been plugged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
OK good info all.

I am posting a couple of camera phone pictures of what I think are the cam chain tensioner. If it is then it looks like my cam chain is in good shape. If I am wrong please let me know.

You can see the white foamy stuff on the tensioner which is why I believe there is water in the oil.













If I am wrong let me know.

Thanks again!



**edit**

If these pictures suck too much to be useful, I have a friend who has a digital camera who is willing to help me tomorrow. I used my cell phone camera.
 

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I also concur that it is a bit early to deem this "lump" worthy of scrapping. Those first numbers aren't too bad, so start looking for the above things.

One thing I do want to know for sure though, you are talking about coolant in the oil, right? Not just water? If it were just water, that might lead to a faulty gasket on the fill plug or filter allowing outside moisture in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I also concur that it is a bit early to deem this "lump" worthy of scrapping. Those first numbers aren't too bad, so start looking for the above things.

One thing I do want to know for sure though, you are talking about coolant in the oil, right? Not just water? If it were just water, that might lead to a faulty gasket on the fill plug or filter allowing outside moisture in.


hey Rat,

I have never ridden it so a faulty oil plug would not allow enough moisture in to make a difference.

It is coolant I am sure, Well not coolant because I never put anti freeze in it
always just water for testing. I figured once it had run I would drain the water and fill with the right stuff.



I am looking into the weep hole. Got no idea where it is... looking in the manual as we 'speak'. I am also trying to figure out where the 7 volt regulator is hiding. The temp gauge never moved sooo I am thinking the 7v reg might have gone Tango Uniform. Not too worried about the reg (if I can find it). I have plenty at work. Switching capable of sourcing 5 amps with out too much strain.



Edit** Found where the weep hole is:

http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=525



You guys got it all in the quick links section!
 

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The weep hole is located on the left side of the rear of the motor just below and a little to the left of the coolant pump, fairly near to where the chrome coolant pipe emerges from the pump. Probe it with a piece of wire to check if it is clear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The weep hole is located on the left side of the rear of the motor just below and a little to the left of the coolant pump, fairly near to where the chrome coolant pipe emerges from the pump. Probe it with a piece of wire to check if it is clear.


Found it and could not tell if it was clear or not so I pulled the water pump cover.

This is what I found!







 

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Pretty cruddy in there. Wouldn't be surprised if the mech seal is weeping. If you look at the lower left side of the coolant pump mounting on the block you will see a stain issuing from the weep hole inside the curve made by the circular part of the pump and the "wing" going off to the left side.
 

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This begs more questions. If you just got this bike, and it only has 18k on the clock, why are you doing the cam chain? Might not be relevant to this topic, but it might shed more light on what this motor has gone through.



That impeller looks fugly, but I would think it is something to keep working at. I still have optimism on saving this engine if you keep getting into it bit by bit.

Do you have any other pictures of the whole thing? What other things can you shed light on?



I'd say the money you paid for the bike is okay for a runner, which it seems it was. It will have a chance.



Joel in the Couve
 

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OK good info all.

I am posting a couple of camera phone pictures of what I think are the cam chain tensioner. If it is then it looks like my cam chain is in good shape. If I am wrong please let me know.

You can see the white foamy stuff on the tensioner which is why I believe there is water in the oil.













If I am wrong let me know.

Thanks again!



**edit**

If these pictures suck too much to be useful, I have a friend who has a digital camera who is willing to help me tomorrow. I used my cell phone camera.


Yeah the pictures suck but that's because that area is one pain to photograph. Try holding a mirror, flashlight, and camera while trying to keep the angle on the mirror right.



This is what a dead one looks like.

I know because it was mine.

 

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Water and oil DO mix well in a CX/GL500 motor but as you know, this is bad. I've owned four of these bikes and have had the dreaded chocolate latte milkshake in two of them. In both cases, the mechanical seal was the culprit. You will probably need head gaskets anyway because when these bikes sit for a long time, its not uncommon for the head gaskets to go bad soon after being put back into service.



I'm with the others -- 18k seems kind of early for a new cam chain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This begs more questions. If you just got this bike, and it only has 18k on the clock, why are you doing the cam chain? Might not be relevant to this topic, but it might shed more light on what this motor has gone through.



That impeller looks fugly, but I would think it is something to keep working at. I still have optimism on saving this engine if you keep getting into it bit by bit.

Do you have any other pictures of the whole thing? What other things can you shed light on?



I'd say the money you paid for the bike is okay for a runner, which it seems it was. It will have a chance.



Joel in the Couve


I had another discussion in general where I posted this noise the bike makes when it runs.



http://www.outsidetheindustry.com/temp_pictures/cx500_noise.wav



It sounds nasty when it idles. The engine has to be at idle RPM or higher. Just the starter does not push the engine fast enough for the noise to start.



I was trying to hunt down the source of the noise.

I pulled the cam inspection plug and it was not any noisier than with the plug in. I thought a bad cam would be.

It sounds like the audio clips I have heard of a bad cam chain although. I pulled the valve covers and it was not any clearer. It sounds like it is coming from the front so I pulled the radiator. The fan does not seem to be it. I did not see anyplace where it is contacting or hear anything more distinct with my head a few inches from the fan while it is idling.

It all has left with with an "I guess cam chain must be it" feeling.

I do not think the adjuster looks bad although from my (crappy phone camera) pictures I posted earlier.



I will get better pictures tonight and post them.

I am thinking the engine has to come out regardless.

It is the only way I know of to do the water pump oil seal.

The links in the Quick Reference talk about the water seal not the oil seal.

Unless I have misunderstood.



**EDIT**

I am going to use Larry's method of adjusting the valves because mine are very noisy. Read up on that last night so will try it tonight. Maybe that will make it quiter.
 

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You're correct, you have to pull the rear cover to replace the camshaft oilseal, so a good chance to check your camchain/guides/tensioner while you're there as you say.



Would be a good idea to replace the mech. seal while you're in there, it's very likely shagged.



A new stator would be a good pre-emptive measure too if you're financial. Otherwise, if it passes the testing procedures leave it alone and hope for the best.



The darker the stator colour, the more suspect it is.
 

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I would look for a replacement motor if possible and then work on the other one at your leisure.That's what I have done over the years and ended up with two running CX 500s and a spare ready to fit engine(With a few bit swaps) if I need it
 

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Thanks Tony, for refreshing me on the other post. Sometimes it's hard to follow things when several posts of similar problems are spread over the forum....keeping things in one thread is usually best to sort problems until they get resolved.



You do seem to be at the "drop the motor" stage to really find out what all is going on. Since I've never had to, I'll let the guys that have field the rest of the topic. Good luck, I still think it is going to work out for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Is there any reason not to go ahead and fill the engine with a CLR and water mixture and let it sit for a day or two?

Would the CLR damage any gaskets? I am planning on pulling the thermostat and filling both heads with a CLR / water mixture before I pull the engine. I think it will be easier to do while it is still in the frame.



Oh here is a better picture of the cam chain tensioner:



 
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