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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Following the surprise stator charging failure (like who “expects” any breakdown?) and still wanting to take that particular Deluxe to PA Rally in 6 days, I decided to get one of my surplus engines prepped to install. One was kind of stuck, pass on that ‘79 for a rush job. On the second, a 3 punch ‘78, the stator charge coils failed the static test. 😟. One to go, an ‘80 with a bit over 18k miles and not very pretty. Prolly hasn’t run in more than 20 years, outside for many. But a full radiator, 👍 (that means I not only don’t need to buy antifreeze, I dont even need to check it, since it hasn’t frozen yet)😆. Initial dry compression 65 and 115, well, that's better than nothing? A few shots of oil in the plug holes and I was headed for 140/160. Cranked it a bit, some oil in the intakes and I had 165/175. We got possibilities here! All the static stator checks passed, hooked up some casual electrics and tried to get it to pop with ether right into the intake holes (no intake manifolds yet, don’t want to get too cocky and jinx myself). Nothing for a bit, but the spark was not very bright on the right. Switching coils demonstrated the CDI box was wonky, so on went another one. To be continued
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Now I got some pops on ether, then a bit of a run and the back of the engine on fire! I got that out pretty fast (ok, it actually pretty much went out on it’s own). So, now a smile is beginning to form, at least around my eyes. I pull the very well running carbs off the Deluxe and put them on the test bed engine, hook up a temporary gas bottle and, with some choke, get it cranking. Nothing for a bit, I had oiled it pretty good not long before, then it tried. And it tried again before responding to the throttle and running! Not as loud as I expected, what with only headers and the H box, and naked carbs. Smoke billowed out followed by lots of various debris, metal mesh, fiberglass insulation chunks, you name it, it was covering my shop floor. Within a few minutes I was taking it up to 5k and it was running pretty darn good. 😁.
Continued
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Checking the battery for charge indication, OH NO! A flat 12-13 volts even when revved. I looked to the yellow stator wires and found over 100 vac when revved, whew! I soon realized I hadn’t connected the regulator green (ground). Once that was corrected I showed 17 volts on the battery 😬. Oh yeah, the black voltage sense wire needs to be connected too. Remember I said there was “casual wiring”, as in hacked off main harness and no switches. Now the battery registered a very nice 14+ volts! I ran it some more, thru the revs, even idled pretty smooth. Some coolant began dribbling from the hose that is supposed to be in the recovery bottle, that is to be expected. Tomorrow I’ll begin the engine exchange, with the original Deluxe engine going on the bench for disassembly, new stator & full Rae-San and what ever else I deem necessary. And a still tired looking twisted twin getting a new lease on life. A happy ending to Day 1.
And yeah, I will change the coolant, oil and filter, though it seems like overkill since I just did it on the Deluxe engine. 😆
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I’m still wondering about the Deluxe’s “no charge” stator. With continuity thru all 3 yellow wire phases and no ground fault there is no static indication of a problem? Disconnected, the yellow phase wires produce only about 30 vac at elevated rpms though. The problem seemed to come on suddenly (good one day, bad the next). Seems to me internally shorted charge coils would not affect all three phases (2 yes, 3 no?) unless the failures were gradual and cumulative until it finally couldn’t keep the battery charged. I don’t think I’ll be able to determine cause even when it out though. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I know there are electric coil diagnostic tools, but not available to me on a whim. Oh well, the right direction is FORWARD!
 
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Left field .... but maybe this.

The wires are corroded. this would give a high resistance on test.

But .... the insulation has failed, shorting the coils back to themselves and returning resistance to normal.

But it won't charge worth .......
 

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'84 CX650E that is evolving into a GL500
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The stator's windings are connected in a "Y" arrangement (see drawing below) so that to one end of each phase is connected to each of the yellow wires and the other ends of the phases are connected together (NOTE that they are not connected to ground or anything else). That means that there are 2 phases in series between each pair of yellow wires so if one phase of the windings fails you actually lose 2/3 of the output.

I'm not sure how that relates to your issue, though. If the reg/rec was plugged in when you measured the voltage the regulator could have been loading the stator and pulling the voltage lower but you did say it was disconnected so that's not it either. Are you sure you had the meter on the correct range and the meter is working properly? You can verify that by sticking the meter's leads into a 110V wall receptacle...

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Schematic
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I understand the 2/3 failure situation due to the common junction point and any 2 yellow wire circuit path flowing through two (multiple coil) coil sets (and acknowledged that in my explanation). So initially I was discounting the likelihood of losing multiple coils at once. But then I figured it might have had some degree of internally shorted coils for awhile and still managed to charge enough, until finally too many were underperforming and it became obvious to me. After all, I’m still getting 30+ vac, not zero. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I also briefly considered that the regulator had lost some diodes, but they checked out ok. Then I considered a poor regulator ground which can cause it not to charge the battery, but it was ok and anyway neither of those malfunctions would cause the unconnected yellow wires to be low, it’s quite independent when disconnected. I’m thinking I will never know, and I’m ok with that. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Thanks for the input and ideas everyone. There was probably an increase of knowledge somewhere amongst our members.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My digital meter is “auto everything” and I periodically test it against known values. I sometimes double check it with my ancient but trusty Simpson 260, but that has a pesky sticking needle. If you know what a Simpson 260 is, you are OLD, or eccentric. 😆 But that is almost a given around here!
 

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'84 CX650E that is evolving into a GL500
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I don't know that model but I remember Simpson meters. And I am both old and eccentric (a lot of that around here).

The analogue multimeter I bought in college died a couple of years ago I shopped for an inexpensive one for my electronics bench. After much searching and a bunch of YouTube reviews I chose one that is full autoranging but allows you to push a button to select the range you expect too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I see the Simpson 260 VOM is still available new, cough cough about $500 US!
The sick engine came out of the Deluxe today. The aesthetically challenged engine went in. Almost ready to start. That’s for tomorrow. I expect my biggest issue may be a stuck clutch, hopefully. Pics below of rescue engine on rolling test dolly, bare Deluxe and rescue engine being “inserted” into frame. ‘Bout 6 hours all told today for the engine swop. It’s looking promising for taking it to PA Rally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Bike is running well, even the temp gauge and tach are working 👍. Currently checking/adjusting cam chain and valves, changing oil/filter. Engine isn’t pretty, but it goes like stink! I got the original engine on the work bench and just barely started disassembly. No rush on that. Later today I’ll take it for a ride and remember Ernie and our years of rides together.
 

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1979 CX500 Deluxe,1982 GL500, 1983 CX650E.1984 CX650E,2001 ST1100,1998 GL1500/Friendship II sidecar
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"Later today I’ll take it for a ride and remember Ernie and our years of rides together".........💓
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wheeeel, I went to go for a ride today and right off the oil light didn’t go out. 🙁. Checking the oil level I see it’s WAY low! Hmmm, I know I filled it and checked after the new oil filter had refilled too. I figure I had ridden it 20 miles or so, and consumed more than 2 quarts of oil! I refilled it again with Rotella T4 15-40 and went on my way. Getting home from my 25 mile ride with Ernie, it was “only” down about 6 oz. Not good, but a substantial improvement. And trending in the right direction. I’m assuming it’s the oil control ring(s) settling in or freeing up. Checking compression again I’m pleased with 155/157 👍. I think this old (44 yrs) but young (well under 20k miles) 3 punch ‘78 is going be fine. And I LIKE how it runs up the tach and thru the gears. 😁 And from the first engagement the clutch wasn’t stuck and worked fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Another 25 mile ride today with no noticeable drop in oil, and nicely tan plugs. I going to declare this project DONE and take it to PA Rally Sunday. Eventually I’ll refurb the original motor and reinstall it, it’s prettier!
 

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Another 25 mile ride today with no noticeable drop in oil, and nicely tan plugs. I going to declare this project DONE and take it to PA Rally Sunday. Eventually I’ll refurb the original motor and reinstall it, it’s prettier!
I am always partial to the underdog. If it were me I would still refurbish the original motor but would let the ugly one live in its current place until it can’t go no more. Or as Murphy’s Law works, you put the refurbished motor in next year only to find the ugly one has more power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That’s more or less my plan, not to wait too long. Both are under 20k miles. I expect to put a couple hundred miles on it at PA Monday and Tuesday. I’ve probably put 35 hrs into various aspects of that bike over the last month so I’m ready for a break from wrenching tho. 😁
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, a couple of days riding at the PA Rally put the temporary motor to the test, and it passed. It ran fine through about 300 miles of rural riding, downshifting, upshifting, power shifting, all the while pushing my limits of grinning! We had a great two days of “Flying PA”. The only fault was when one header collar lost it’s nuts and slipped down, resulting in after fire on decel. A hardware store had the 6mm replacements I needed and off I went. A happy ending!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just bumping this up because soon I’m going to do a little updating on the failed charging stator in the original Deluxe 20 k mile motor. I was never comfortable that I couldn’t find a static test that indicates the fault cause, and I’m still not. There is some elusive element to this mystery that may prove to be educational if I can figure it out. In the meantime I have received almost all the parts I need to reassemble the original motor with the G8 stator and the Rae-San 3.5 and that is still the plan. Next week maybe, because Friday is the beginning of three days of stretching the legs of my GL650i around the rural two lanes of New England, looks like just two of us going. Very cool but dry weather is forecast, the very reason I keep “The Beast” registered and insured!
 
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