Valve tappets

3559 Views 20 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Zegwin, Mar 8, 2011

Zegwin

Discussion Starter · Mar 8, 2011

Ok... So I thought I would just give the bike a "spa" day and change the oil, the gear oil, the coolant, adjust the cam chain tensioner, and adjust the valves. All went well till the valves.

First sign of concern was the clicking noise I got while riding (oil was clean) but assumed it was the valves. Second warning sign was when I went to check to see if they were adjusted properly I could not get the feeler gauge between the valves and the tappets. So I backed the tappets out and placed my gauge in and tightened it down to where I could slide the gauge in and out. Third warning sign was that I could only truly get the feeler gauges under 3 of the 8 tappets. The rest got stuck part way. (too tight). So after "adjusting" everything I started her up for a second just to hear her and she was very airy. I guess the best word to describe the sound was poppy for the valves.

any ideas.... is this a "normal" sound?

EDIT: I watched luckys videos and read the two versions on how to adjust the tappets. I used the .004" and .005" gauges.

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

TXDrummer

· #2 · Mar 8, 2011

Parts in the valve train will expand as they warm and the clearances will close up once it comes to running temperature. A cold valve train is going to make a bit more noise.

My thoughts: First, was the engine cold when you set the valves? If not, then the clearances are probably a bit excessive. Second, if you did set the valves on a cold engine, then did you allow the engine to warm up? Last, are you absolutely sure that the crankshaft was in the correct position on the power stroke for the side you were adjusting?

My advice would be to let it get cold (overnight) and then go back over the process again. Being methodical is an absolute must. You might even make a list of the steps, then check them off as you go so you don't overlook anything.

Oh, and did you start it with the valve covers off? If you did, it will sound much different (louder) than with the covers on.

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DavidfromWisconsin

· #3 · Mar 8, 2011

TXDrummer said:
Parts in the valve train will expand as they warm and the clearances will close up once it comes to running temperature. A cold valve train is going to make a bit more noise.

My thoughts: First, was the engine cold when you set the valves? If not, then the clearances are probably a bit excessive. Second, if you did set the valves on a cold engine, then did you allow the engine to warm up? Last, are you absolutely sure that the crankshaft was in the correct position on the power stroke for the side you were adjusting?

The valve clearance should be the same on both a hot and cold engine. That doesn't mean waiting 15 minutes to check the valves, it means shutting off the engine and checking the valves in only two or three minutes. Yes, burns are almost expected.

This was proven at a tech session that I went to a number of years ago. The leader of the tech session also talked about his past where he wrenched on race bikes. Often if there was a strange noise he would be checking the valves right after the stopping the bike.

He further stated that the metal cools at different rates so once it starts to cool the clearance can be all over the chart.

Thus you want to check the valves either stone cold or at full temperature. Do it cold and avoid the burn ointment.

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Blindstitch

· #4 · Mar 8, 2011

So who was this masked mechanic?

Zegwin

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 8, 2011

Ok well I will give in another shot tomorrow evening so I know it is cold. I will let you know if anything changes.

Shep

· #6 · Mar 8, 2011

Also this may help,

http://www.pdsrecording.site90.com/cxgl500/CXGLTappets.htm#CXGLTappets

http://www.pdsrecording.site90.com/cxgl500/TappetsDressing.htm

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rickbert

· #7 · Mar 8, 2011

Have to keep in mind as well that our engines are well known to NOT always be the most quiet in the "valve" area....sometimes even with correctly adjusted valves some are gonna have some "clatter".

As well I agree that the engine sounds A LOT different when it's totally hot vs. cold and yes it IS a lot quieter once it is hot and probably the best way to judge performance is how's it doing at "normal operating" temp !

(Just telling you how mine does for a comparison for you).

As well, I've stated a bunch of times....the clutches on our bikes are famous for "clutch rattle" and I'm sure A LOT of folks have clutch rattle that they THINK is their valves and it's very difficult to isolate.

Good Luck Zeggie !

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Shep

· #8 · Mar 8, 2011

The only reason for Clutch rattle or excessive Tappet noise is incorrectly serviced engines.

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/sheppola/?action=view&current=cx500sound.mp4

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e315/sheppola/?action=view&current=cx500IdleVibration.mp4

HTH

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DavidfromWisconsin

· #9 · Mar 8, 2011

Blindstitch said:
So who was this masked mechanic?

I have forgotten the guys name, but he taught BMW mechanics for BMW.

Oh, yeah he was the chief mechanic the year BMW won the Daytona 200 with Reg Pridmore on an R90S.

Eurovee

· #10 · Mar 8, 2011

David from Wisconsin said:
The valve clearance should be the same on both a hot and cold engine.

I`ve never heard that one before....

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bandit

· #11 · Mar 8, 2011

Eurovee said:
I`ve never heard that one before....

me neither David.i thought set at cold,gapped for the relevant expansion as the engine/metals heat up.thereby,when the engine is at normal operating temperature,there is no gap....plus the valves close fully

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Linny

· #12 · Mar 8, 2011

I think fooling around with differing temps when setting your clearances could result in a situation where your valves don't seat fully and, for the exhaust valve, result in burning amoung other issues. A big part of the seating process is dissipation of heat from the valve. A little clatter doesn't bother me personally.

philbrewer

· #13 · Mar 8, 2011

This might help.

http://cx500forum.com/index.php?/to...bolt/page__p__14664__fromsearch__1#entry14664

Zegwin

Discussion Starter · #14 · Mar 8, 2011

Well I have good news and mediocre news. The good news is that with a stone cold engine I was able to get the tappets adjusted properly on the left side. The mediocre news is that I really was not able to adjust anything on the right side. The intake side I could not even get gauge in between and the exhaust side I could only get the feeler gauge under one tappet but it was a tight fit. I am thinking I now need to get a torque wrench (I don't trust my friends anymore) and rotate the rocker arms. If anyone has any other ideas chime in!

Oh and the sound is now localized to the right side I believe.

bandit

· #15 · Mar 8, 2011

Zegwin said:
Well I have good news and mediocre news. The good news is that with a stone cold engine I was able to get the tappets adjusted properly on the left side. The mediocre news is that I really was not able to adjust anything on the right side. The intake side I could not even get gauge in between and the exhaust side I could only get the feeler gauge under one tappet but it was a tight fit. I am thinking I now need to get a torque wrench (I don't trust my friends anymore) and rotate the rocker arms. If anyone has any other ideas chime in!

Oh and the sound is now localized to the right side I believe.

i dont understand zegwin.i really dont.the left is the same as the right.

take your torque wrench out of the equation for a minute.the nuts are wrist tight,and you dont need one[for this job]

you rotate the crank via the 17mm nut under the rad.when your marks line up AND your on the commpression stroke,adjust your gap

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Zegwin

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 8, 2011

Here is what I have done. I took both covers off. I removed bother covers (the inspection hole and the one on the front to rotate the engine.) After that I rotated the engine till I was at the TL mark. I went to the left cylinder and loosened the 4 tappet locking nuts and backed the tappets out. I slid the .004" gauge under the inlet tappets and, using my fingers tightened down the tappets. I checked to make sure the gauge was able to slide out without too much resistance and evenly and gently tightened the locking nuts down so they were snug. Did the same for the left exhaust valves.

Next I rotated the engine till I was on the TR mark. Again I loosened the 10mm locking nuts and removed the tappets. This time I was not able to get the feeler gauge between 3 of the 4 tappets. and the one I was able to get in place was way too tight. So I did what I could (or did what I knew how to do), and tightened the tappets down finger tight and made the locking nuts snug.

What I believe I will need the torque wrench for is if I do what Larry is talking about here: http://cx500forum.com/index.php?/to...tensioner-bolt/page__view__findpost__p__14829

Granted I have not look in my book to check the setting but I have a feeling it will need a torque wrench.

"when your marks line up AND your on the commpression stroke,adjust your gap" This might be my problem.... I will have to check again. But I hope my post makes things clear as mud.

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bandit

· #17 · Mar 8, 2011

Zegwin said:
Here is what I have done. I took both covers off. I removed bother covers (the inspection hole and the one on the front to rotate the engine.) After that I rotated the engine till I was at the TL mark. I went to the left cylinder and loosened the 4 tappet locking nuts and backed the tappets out. I slid the .004" gauge under the inlet tappets and, using my fingers tightened down the tappets. I checked to make sure the gauge was able to slide out without too much resistance and evenly and gently tightened the locking nuts down so they were snug. Did the same for the left exhaust valves.

Next I rotated the engine till I was on the TR mark. Again I loosened the 10mm locking nuts and removed the tappets. This time I was not able to get the feeler gauge between 3 of the 4 tappets. and the one I was able to get in place was way too tight. So I did what I could (or did what I knew how to do), and tightened the tappets down finger tight and made the locking nuts snug.

What I believe I will need the torque wrench for is if I do what Larry is talking about here: http://cx500forum.com/index.php?/to...tensioner-bolt/page__view__findpost__p__14829

Granted I have not look in my book to check the setting but I have a feeling it will need a torque wrench.

"when your marks line up AND your on the commpression stroke,adjust your gap" This might be my problem.... I will have to check again. But I hope my post makes things clear as mud.

you can line up your marks on the exhaust stroke and the commpression stroke..........which one were you on?

you must be on the commpression stroke m8,it wont pan out otherwise

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bandit

· #18 · Mar 8, 2011

B)forgot to sat.set your 17mmwrench to tighten.if you miss your mark.do not be tempted to go backwards,carry on until your mark lines up again,,,,,on the commpression stroke

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Zegwin

Discussion Starter · #19 · Mar 8, 2011

Yah I was using the tighten setting. And yup I was on the wrong stroke. Thank you bandit for that last little bit and thank you all for your input. All is well now. Sounds like it did before but now I know the tappets are set.

Next is to work on the clutch. It keeps dropping out of second sometimes (not always but enough to make it annoying). So now to the quick reference guide to see what I can do about the clutch. (also hoping that fixes the ticking since someone said the clutch tends to rattle (unless maintained well) (though that could just be the valves being cold))

bandit

· #20 · Mar 8, 2011

Zegwin said:
Yah I was using the tighten setting. And yup I was on the wrong stroke. Thank you bandit for that last little bit and thank you all for your input. All is well now. Sounds like it did before but now I know the tappets are set.

Next is to work on the clutch. It keeps dropping out of second sometimes (not always but enough to make it annoying). So now to the quick reference guide to see what I can do about the clutch. (also hoping that fixes the ticking since someone said the clutch tends to rattle (unless maintained well) (though that could just be the valves being cold))

sounds like it did before.....sweet,on that note,time for bed

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