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BOOKMARK JOHNSTE Volt Regulator
 

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I am currently using a Shindengen Series Regulator SH775 , this regulator cutoffs the flow of current when not used.
If you google SH775 you will find many other bikes which use this conversion.

Because I like to test and discover things I build a test rig using my lathe to measure input torque , output current and voltage and some thermocouples to measure temperatures inside the coil winding's of the stator.





The Shindengen regulators definitely runs a cooler stator but I have difficulties to measure the 3 phase AC voltage and current because the Shindengen cutsoff the flow of current rather abruptly.
I think I need a 3 phase power TRMS clamp meter but these are a bit expensive..............
Pim,

Is this a series regulator or a switching regulator? To me, a series regulator operates the active device in the linear region adjusting its drive thus ultimately increasing or decreasing the current to the load thereby keeping the output voltage constant.. It does not shut off the current. What do you mean when the current is not used?.

In the case of a switching regulator, it does turn on and off the active device keeping thereby regulating the load voltage and current. These on/off cycle times are fast. Is there any negative effects on the system by using a switching regulator, These were not around in the 80s, so the rest of the system on the bike would not have been designed for this type of regulation.

1) how long you been using the SH775 on your bike
2) Does it bolt right up or did yo have to adapt mounting holes and configuration
3) Did you have to add any other heat sink arrangement for mounting.
4) What did you use for mating connectors and where did you get them.

John
 

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Is this a series regulator or a switching regulator?
They ( majority ) calls it a series regulator and it switches of the current flowing to the battery when the desired voltage is reached. It does this every cycle on all three wires of the stator.
So yes it is not linear
No flow of current , no heat buildup in the stator.


how long you been using the SH775 on your bike
Since a month ago

Does it bolt right up or did yo have to adapt mounting holes and configuration
Bolts on straight away, only use shorter bolts
201932


201933


201934



Did you have to add any other heat sink arrangement for mounting.
No, it runs even cooler then the Std regulator. See two pictures during the tests on a lathe. The third temperature is the regulator temperature:
Std regulator 4 minutes = 36.7 deg celcius
SH775 10 minutes = 23.1 deg celcius

What did you use for mating connectors and where did you get them.
I bought them from Aliexpress, search for : QLW-A-3F-GR
 

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1978 CX500 "The Grub", 1983 GL650I "Nimbus"
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I wonder if there would be any noticeable improvement in fuel economy.
 

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1978 CX500 "The Grub", 1983 GL650I "Nimbus"
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Load on the alternator certainly puts drag on the motor. All of that energy getting shunted to ground comes from the crankshaft. Look at the energy input and output values in Pim's test results.
 
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Load on the alternator certainly puts drag on the motor. All of that energy getting shunted to ground comes from the crankshaft. Look at the energy input and output values in Pim's test results.
The output of the alternator at the alternator doesn’t change with either system. There is no load change at the alternator. You are not comprehending how it works.
 

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Pim- I have never seen an image of you and your bike yet, but I imagine it looks similar to this.. Could we start a thread about the Flux Capacitor soon?

201938
 

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The output of the alternator at the alternator doesn’t change with either system.
I know that for the last 30 years or so , people tried to save their stators or by reducing the watts used or by using as much as possible, and every time we had to remind those people that the output of the stator cannot be changed.....
Untill now, now we can because the SH775 series regulator works completly the opposite way as a shunt regulator. A series regulator can change / control the output of the stator
 

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1978 CX500 "The Grub", 1983 GL650I "Nimbus"
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The output of the alternator at the alternator doesn’t change with either system. There is no load change at the alternator. You are not comprehending how it works.
I comprehend that more power is needed to turn a generator with an electrical load applied to it. That's why the governor on a worksite generator increases the throttle when you start your power saw.
I comprehend that the stock, shunting regulator on the CX or GL applies a constant load on the alternator, with the excess dissipated as heat.
I comprehend that the switching, mosfet regulator applies load on the alternator only as needed, thereby robbing the crankshaft of less power.
I don't comprehend why it wouldn't be reasonable to ask if that reduction in wasted power would be reflected in improved fuel economy.

Randall
 

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I comprehend that more power is needed to turn a generator with an electrical load applied to it. That's why the governor on a worksite generator increases the throttle when you start your power saw.
I comprehend that the stock, shunting regulator on the CX or GL applies a constant load on the alternator, with the excess dissipated as heat.
I comprehend that the switching, mosfet regulator applies load on the alternator only as needed, thereby robbing the crankshaft of less power.
I don't comprehend why it wouldn't be reasonable to ask if that reduction in wasted power would be reflected in improved fuel economy.

Randall
Your understanding of this is false. The stators in our bikes are quite a bit different than a jobsite generator and makes no sense to use as a comparison. The shunt regulators don’t put a load on anything but the ground it is shunting power to. A mosfet regulator shunts power too and also doesn’t put a load on the stator. The alternator puts out the same power no matter the load. The only thing really affecting the output of the alternator is the rpm’s. You need to search google or YouTube or ask somebody you know that understands this to explain it to you. Sorry
 

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I to have trouble understanding how the SH775 can work. It is my understanding that the changing magnetic fields caused by the rotating permanent magnets in the flywheel induce a current in the stator coils. The amount of current depends on the speed of rotation of the flywheel. The shunt regulator simply passes excess current to ground through a resistance which generate heat proportional to the current being dumped through it. What does the series regulator do to regulate the output of the stator? It's google time I guess.
 

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You’re getting it! I don’t argue with you to make you angry. I am doing it for the benefit of future forum members reading this. I don’t want false statements to be regarded as true statements. With our alternators, less power consumption doesn’t mean less load, it only means more power shunted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I to have trouble understanding how the SH775 can work. It is my understanding that the changing magnetic fields caused by the rotating permanent magnets in the flywheel induce a current in the stator coils. The amount of current depends on the speed of rotation of the flywheel. The shunt regulator simply passes excess current to ground through a resistance which generate heat proportional to the current being dumped through it. What does the series regulator do to regulate the output of the stator? It's google time I guess.
The new generation of regulators work a bit different. The idea is that coils like to keep the current in them unchanged. Traditional regulators hook up the load (the battery + the motorcycle’s electrical system) to the stator at the beginning of each AC cycle. The stator pumps current until the battery voltage is high enough and then, in the mids of the AC cycle, the regulator needs to disconnect the stators current. However, since the stator cannot have it’s current cut abruptly, the regulator shorts down the stator’s coil, allowing it to dissipate its current onto itself.
The new regulators (775 and 847) predicts how much current will be required by each AC cycle and hook up the load only in the mids of each AC cycle. Ie, the stator does not overly excited and then asked to discharged but rather provides only what’s needed. There is a patent for that by a couple of Italian engineers.
btw, it is obvious that less power drawn from the stator (with the new regulators) mean better fuel consumption. If anyone doubted that, just disconnect your stator from the regulator and note that the idle speed rises.It is also clear from pims lab in which he actually measures the amount of power he puts into his machine (denoted as input power in his explanations, I think). The only question is - is it significant? Noticeable? Don’t know.
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
@Pim205GTI,
From what I read on the internet, the SH775 is considered outdated with less efficiencies at high rpm. Question to you: should I buy and send you an SH847, would you be willing/able to repeat the test with the 847? It is pin / connector compatible with the 775. What say you?
 

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The new generation of regulators work a bit different. The idea is that coils like to keep the current in them unchanged. Traditional regulators hook up the load (the battery + the motorcycle’s electrical system) to the stator at the beginning of each AC cycle. The stator pumps current until the battery voltage is high enough and then, in the mids of the AC cycle, the regulator needs to disconnect the stators current. However, since the stator cannot have it’s current cut abruptly, the regulator shorts down the stator’s coil, allowing it to dissipate its current onto itself.
The new regulators (775 and 847) predicts how much current will be required by each AC cycle and hook up the load only in the mids of each AC cycle. Ie, the stator does not overly excited and then asked to discharged but rather provides only what’s needed. There is a patent for that by a couple of Italian engineers.
btw, it is obvious that less power drawn from the stator (with the new regulators) mean better fuel consumption. If anyone doubted that, just disconnect your stator from the regulator and note that the idle speed rises.It is also clear from pims lab in which he actually measures the amount of power he puts into his machine (denoted as input power in his explanations, I think). The only question is - is it significant? Noticeable? Don’t know.
I look forward to learning more about this technology as more info becomes available. I find it laughable that you say it obviously improves fuel economy but then at the same time say you don’t know if any change in fuel economy is significant or even noticeable.
 

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So a year of three ago I started thinking about how to solve the dreaded stator failures in our Turbo bikes.
I started reading and reading and reading.
Magnetic Flux, Fixed, directly related to current, More winding turns, Less winding turns, Thicker wires, high temperature wire lacquer, Epoxy impregnation winding's, the list goes on and on.
Bottom line the magnetic field force is fixed and therefore the current which flows and the current causes the winding's to heat up.....
O yes there will be no current in an open circuit but then the voltage rises so high you will certainly short circuit your winding's.....
Oke what then ?
Voltage rises so high it will short out your winding's ?? Really ?? The open stator test says something like 60 volts at 2000 rpm. Well that means 240 volts at 8000 rpm. Well here in Europe we have 240 volts, no big deal. I thought in the last 40 years or so semiconductor technology must have improved that we can switch those voltages on and of. I started thinking of a stator with star configuration instead of a delta configuration to lower the voltage and current. I thought I had to invent it by my self because surely someone within our CX community would if there was a simple solution to this problem would have found it already. But the believe within the CX community is such do not try to find a solution because there is none.............

And then one day, I cannot even remember how I came across the series regulator. It sounded to good to be true. People saying it must be better because such and such but no real measurements.
So I thought lets check it out, I bought a used SH775 from Ebay and started to think how to test it. Important was not reason something like : well so and such voltage and current flows therefore such and such current must flow through the stator, so it must be less, so it must be better.

Really important was being able to measure the real mechanical power to drive the alternator, so that is what I did.
I mounted the stator on a bearing , attached an arm and measured the force to keep the arm steady:

201975


The RPM is measured with a proximity switch , were I used the CX500 Turbo ignition cam on the flywheel. I used a Load Cell to measure the force in Newtons, I measured the arm.
Then I used a simple microprocessor to calculate the power going into the stator.
Force x Arm x Pi x RPM / 60 = NewtonMeter per second or Watt
4.80 Newton x 0.155 Meter x 3.14 x 1250 / 60 = 97.4 Watts ( display says 99 Watts )

So with a Shunt Regulator , see picture 26.8 Newton, 2000 RPM = 411 Watts
So with the series Regulator, see picture 12.8 Newton, 1996 RPM = 195 Watts

So you see it works

But the test I did was with a very light load , like 5 amps just enough to run your headlight.
When I do some future test with real loads the Shunt Regulator mechanical input will stay the same because it always runs at maximum capacity, but the series regulator will have to increase the load on the stator to produce more watts and therefore the difference will be lower.
You can even say that when full power is withdrawn by the elctrical system both the shunt and the series regulator will give the exact smae results becuase they both will let all current flow through.
 

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So a year of three ago I started thinking about how to solve the dreaded stator failures in our Turbo bikes.
I started reading and reading and reading.
Magnetic Flux, Fixed, directly related to current, More winding turns, Less winding turns, Thicker wires, high temperature wire lacquer, Epoxy impregnation winding's, the list goes on and on.
Bottom line the magnetic field force is fixed and therefore the current which flows and the current causes the winding's to heat up.....
O yes there will be no current in an open circuit but then the voltage rises so high you will certainly short circuit your winding's.....
Oke what then ?
Voltage rises so high it will short out your winding's ?? Really ?? The open stator test says something like 60 volts at 2000 rpm. Well that means 240 volts at 8000 rpm. Well here in Europe we have 240 volts, no big deal. I thought in the last 40 years or so semiconductor technology must have improved that we can switch those voltages on and of. I started thinking of a stator with star configuration instead of a delta configuration to lower the voltage and current. I thought I had to invent it by my self because surely someone within our CX community would if there was a simple solution to this problem would have found it already. But the believe within the CX community is such do not try to find a solution because there is none.............

And then one day, I cannot even remember how I came across the series regulator. It sounded to good to be true. People saying it must be better because such and such but no real measurements.
So I thought lets check it out, I bought a used SH775 from Ebay and started to think how to test it. Important was not reason something like : well so and such voltage and current flows therefore such and such current must flow through the stator, so it must be less, so it must be better.

Really important was being able to measure the real mechanical power to drive the alternator, so that is what I did.
I mounted the stator on a bearing , attached an arm and measured the force to keep the arm steady:

View attachment 201975

The RPM is measured with a proximity switch , were I used the CX500 Turbo ignition cam on the flywheel. I used a Load Cell to measure the force in Newtons, I measured the arm.
Then I used a simple microprocessor to calculate the power going into the stator.
Force x Arm x Pi x RPM / 60 = NewtonMeter per second or Watt
4.80 Newton x 0.155 Meter x 3.14 x 1250 / 60 = 97.4 Watts ( display says 99 Watts )

So with a Shunt Regulator , see picture 26.8 Newton, 2000 RPM = 411 Watts
So with the series Regulator, see picture 12.8 Newton, 1996 RPM = 195 Watts

So you see it works

But the test I did was with a very light load , like 5 amps just enough to run your headlight.
When I do some future test with real loads the Shunt Regulator mechanical input will stay the same because it always runs at maximum capacity, but the series regulator will have to increase the load on the stator to produce more watts and therefore the difference will be lower.
You can even say that when full power is withdrawn by the elctrical system both the shunt and the series regulator will give the exact smae results becuase they both will let all current flow through.
Thanks for the more detailed explanation. I am very interested in your future test results. You could be onto a gold mine here since so many Japanese bikes are known for weak stators. I hope you are successful with this!
 

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You could be onto a gold mine here since so many Japanese bikes are known for weak stators.
I think this guy was one of the first to use a series regulator for old motorcycles :

He sells them on Ebay , seller SH775AA !!
 
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