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Planning Maintenance/Repairs

2503 Views 45 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  richnct
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Hello Everyone,

I recently purchased a 1980 Honda CX500 Deluxe as my first motorcycle. I'm kind of diving into the deep end but I'm not too afraid of working on it and getting my hands dirty was the main reason I got a motorcycle in the first place.

The motorcycle was able to be ridden around a few times around the block and on a few main roads but not far. I have listed the following issues/concerns that I have found so far and my plans to repair. I would just like some advices/suggestions/confirmation that I'm heading in the right direction.

The previous owner replaced the battery with a lithium one, put pod filters on (didn't change jets from what I was told), and did a monoshock conversion with the YSS kit if I'm not mistaken. There are some other minor ones like speedometer, front light, and seat replacement but nothing big that should affect the actual function of the motorcycle.

1. Motorcycle hiccups and backfires at idle and at load

I have found a crack in the right carb boot and bought some RTV to patch it but I don't believe it worked. I might need to add a bit more for it to work. I have thought about going the heatshrink method to repair it but haven't found a great vendor for it except McMaster-Carr.

Plan: I'm wondering if it is worth buying one used off of someone or off CMSNL? Or is it worth trying to get a large piece of heatshrink?​

2. Motorcycle idles erratically and very high without stalling (~1.5-2K RPM)

I know the ideal RPM at idle is around 1100 but I can't seem to reliably get that without the bike stalling. I believe this may be caused due to a clogged pilot jet but I can't be certain at this point but I plan to take the carbs right off and rebuild them anyways.

Plan: I'm looking to rebuild the carbs, would there be a preferred kit (Randakk's?) or should I look into getting Murray's Carbs or Mikuni Carbs instead. Cost for upgrading is pretty significant and I would prefer not to if possible unless it's highly recommended.​

3. Motorcycle leaking oil in several places on the engine

Motorcycle leaking out of from what I can tell are the following locations:
  • Cam tensioner adjuster bolt
  • Clutch cable connector to engine
  • Front engine/Clutch cover
  • Rear engine cover
This is not great and I made the rookie mistake of not checking this in detail as I went during the night to see the bike. I understand the cam tensioner bolt seal is the biggest pain in the ass to change as you need to take the whole engine off the bike to replace but that was my idea to begin with when I purchased the bike. I've heard that the clutch cable connector seal is pretty easy to replace so this is not a big worry just need to find parts. The front engine cover gasket is relatively easy to get to from what I've researched so far. I haven't looked into the rear engine cover at all and haven't fully diagnosed if oil is indeed leaking from there but I'm just assuming and have attached some pictures to help.

Plan: I will have to take the engine off and replace all gaskets that I can. Need to determine where to purchase parts.​

Please let met know if I should do more repairs since I'm getting the engine out.

Thanks,

Michael

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Welcome
1 Buy Larry's carb book (see my sig line for a link. It's possible your pods are blocking the ports on the carbs as well. an ultra sonic cleaner is also a good idea
2. See #1
3. download the FSM free again see my sig line. do all the high mileage service items regardless of stated miles
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Thanks for the link, bought the book, I downloaded the FSM before I got the bike. Planning to do a majority of the services before the bikes sees the road next season.
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FYI the carbs were supported by the rubber boots at both the air box end and the cylinder head end. When pod filters are fitted that put all the weight of the carb on the remaining boot. That can lead to vacuum leaks.

If it were me I'd get the engine running properly before considering taking it out. Even if you can't get it running properly diagnostics is much easier with the engine installed.
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Once you check your cam chain tension . .get that bolt area clean and dry.. apply silicone sealant . Youll need to redo each tine the adjuster bolt is disturbed...saves u dropping the motor for a lil o ring .
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Welcome to the forum and welcome to the world of antique vehicle ownership (they own us, not the other way around). Your bike is about 4 decades old and from the sound of things has not had all of the maintenance necessary to keep it safe & reliable (not to mention some possibly questionable modifications) so it is highly recommended to go through the Factory Shop Manual and perform all of the service procedures, regardless of whether your bike has reached the specified mileage.
I also recommend looking on all rubber parts with suspicion because rubber does not age gracefully. Check the date codes on your tires and replace them if they are over 5 years old no matter how good they look & feel (old rubber simply cannot flow around the irregularities in the asphalt well enough to grip, especially if it is cool or wet). If your bike still has the original rubber brake line(s) (should be replaced every 2 or 3 fluid changes = 5 or 6 years) I recommend shopping for modern stainless braided ones (they last practically forever and double the life of the fluid). And don't forget things like the rad hoses and the boot between the engine and swingarm (they can crack on the bottom where you don't see it).

The previous owner replaced the battery with a lithium one, put pod filters on (didn't change jets from what I was told), and did a monoshock conversion with the YSS kit if I'm not mistaken. There are some other minor ones like speedometer, front light, and seat replacement but nothing big that should affect the actual function of the motorcycle.
I hope you are aware that all of the modifications you listed will affect the function of the motorcycle. Did the Previous Owner give you the required safety certificate and UVIP?
1. Motorcycle hiccups and backfires at idle and at load
I have found a crack in the right carb boot and bought some RTV to patch it but I don't believe it worked. I might need to add a bit more for it to work. I have thought about going the heatshrink method to repair it but haven't found a great vendor for it except McMaster-Carr.

Plan: I'm wondering if it is worth buying one used off of someone or off CMSNL? Or is it worth trying to get a large piece of heatshrink?​
I can't say for the ones CMSNL sells but there are a lot of aftermarket intake manifolds for sale that don't come close to fitting properly.

I bought large self adhesive heat shrink tubing on eBay a few years ago for something else. It was much less expensive than places like McMaster-Carr but it takes a lot longer to get to this part of the world (I've recently learned that Aliexpress often has lower prices than eBay plus faster shipping).

Note that Room Temperature Vulcanizing ("RTV") can refer to any rubberlike material that does not require heat to cure. What you got is more liklely to be silicone sealant and it would be far from my first choice for that application.
I've had good results using Shoe Goo to patch cracks in intake anifolds.

2. Motorcycle idles erratically and very high without stalling (~1.5-2K RPM)
I know the ideal RPM at idle is around 1100 but I can't seem to reliably get that without the bike stalling. I believe this may be caused due to a clogged pilot jet but I can't be certain at this point but I plan to take the carbs right off and rebuild them anyways.

Plan: I'm looking to rebuild the carbs, would there be a preferred kit (Randakk's?) or should I look into getting Murray's Carbs or Mikuni Carbs instead. Cost for upgrading is pretty significant and I would prefer not to if possible unless it's highly recommended.​
This plus point #1 indicates that the carbs probably need to be properly cleaned & rebuilt. When you are looking at carb kits remember that the metal parts in aftermarket kits are often so far out of spec that they can cause the bike to run worse than before the rebuild and that the best kit available (the Randakk's Original kit) does not contain any jets, needles &c because Randakk determined that A) Those parts seldom need to be replaced and B) on the rare occasions when they do need to be replaced your local Honda dealer is the best source for ones that do meet spec.
3. Motorcycle leaking oil in several places on the engine
Motorcycle leaking out of from what I can tell are the following locations:
  • Cam tensioner adjuster bolt
  • Clutch cable connector to engine
  • Front engine/Clutch cover
  • Rear engine cover
This (plus the condition of the carbs) indicates that the person who modified your bike was more interested in style than in function (anyone who really knew what they were doing would have dealt with these things first, then used the bike for a while and made changes based on what it actually needed in order to better do what they wanted it to) I would consider everything they did to be suspect because people like that often make fundamental errors that can seriously affect safety.
I highly recommend going over everything they did thoroughly, especially any welds they did but also I would seriously consider replacing any bolts they used to attach things instead of welding because they may have been over tightened and weakened.
You may find this an interesting read

I understand the cam tensioner bolt seal is the biggest pain in the ass to change as you need to take the whole engine off the bike to replace but that was my idea to begin with when I purchased the bike.
See Bahn's comments. It really doesn't make sense to go through all of the effort & expense to open the engine for the sale of a 50 cent o-ring but make sure you remember to replace it if/when you have the engine apart for something else.
FWIW, mine has had silicone sealant to seal the camchain tensioner adjuster bolt for several years and will continue to until the engine is apart for something else.

As for the other possible leaks, "there's no point fixing what ain't broke". My advice would be to clean it thoroughly and coat the parts of the engine you suspect are leaking with a fine powder (talcum, flour, anything fine that will cling to the surfaces will do), then go around the block a couple of times, let it cool down and look for tracks in the powder that will lead you to where the actual leaks are (it might even turn out to be only 1 leak plus oil blown to other areas while riding).
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Welcome to the forum and welcome to the world of antique vehicle ownership (they own us, not the other way around). Your bike is about 4 decades old and from the sound of things has not had all of the maintenance necessary to keep it safe & reliable (not to mention some possibly questionable modifications) so it is highly recommended to go through the Factory Shop Manual and perform all of the service procedures, regardless of whether your bike has reached the specified mileage.
I also recommend looking on all rubber parts with suspicion because rubber does not age gracefully. Check the date codes on your tires and replace them if they are over 5 years old no matter how good they look & feel (old rubber simply cannot flow around the irregularities in the asphalt well enough to grip, especially if it is cool or wet). If your bike still has the original rubber brake line(s) (should be replaced every 2 or 3 fluid changes = 5 or 6 years) I recommend shopping for modern stainless braided ones (they last practically forever and double the life of the fluid). And don't forget things like the rad hoses and the boot between the engine and swingarm (they can crack on the bottom where you don't see it).


I hope you are aware that all of the modifications you listed will affect the function of the motorcycle. Did the Previous Owner give you the required safety certificate and UVIP?
I can't say for the ones CMSNL sells but there are a lot of aftermarket intake manifolds for sale that don't come close to fitting properly.

I bought large self adhesive heat shrink tubing on eBay a few years ago for something else. It was much less expensive than places like McMaster-Carr but it takes a lot longer to get to this part of the world (I've recently learned that Aliexpress often has lower prices than eBay plus faster shipping).

Note that Room Temperature Vulcanizing ("RTV") can refer to any rubberlike material that does not require heat to cure. What you got is more liklely to be silicone sealant and it would be far from my first choice for that application.
I've had good results using Shoe Goo to patch cracks in intake anifolds.

This plus point #1 indicates that the carbs probably need to be properly cleaned & rebuilt. When you are looking at carb kits remember that the metal parts in aftermarket kits are often so far out of spec that they can cause the bike to run worse than before the rebuild and that the best kit available (the Randakk's Original kit) does not contain any jets, needles &c because Randakk determined that A) Those parts seldom need to be replaced and B) on the rare occasions when they do need to be replaced your local Honda dealer is the best source for ones that do meet spec.
This (plus the condition of the carbs) indicates that the person who modified your bike was more interested in style than in function (anyone who really knew what they were doing would have dealt with these things first, then used the bike for a while and made changes based on what it actually needed in order to better do what they wanted it to) I would consider everything they did to be suspect because people like that often make fundamental errors that can seriously affect safety.
I highly recommend going over everything they did thoroughly, especially any welds they did but also I would seriously consider replacing any bolts they used to attach things instead of welding because they may have been over tightened and weakened.
You may find this an interesting read


See Bahn's comments. It really doesn't make sense to go through all of the effort & expense to open the engine for the sale of a 50 cent o-ring but make sure you remember to replace it if/when you have the engine apart for something else.
FWIW, mine has had silicone sealant to seal the camchain tensioner adjuster bolt for several years and will continue to until the engine is apart for something else.

As for the other possible leaks, "there's no point fixing what ain't broke". My advice would be to clean it thoroughly and coat the parts of the engine you suspect are leaking with a fine powder (talcum, flour, anything fine that will cling to the surfaces will do), then go around the block a couple of times, let it cool down and look for tracks in the powder that will lead you to where the actual leaks are (it might even turn out to be only 1 leak plus oil blown to other areas while riding).
Bob,

Thanks for the thorough info. Do you know where I can purchase some braided brake lines?

I am aware that some of the changes done to the bike will affect the functionality and I have not experienced any "pogo-ing" from the monoshock conversion during my rides. I did receive a UVIP and the bike was safetied shortly after purchase.

I used Spider Patch tape for the boot but I only did 2 layers which I believe wasn't enough. I'll look into getting some Shoe Goo and hopefully that will work in addition to getting a piece of heatshrink off of Aliexpress. I did buy some Permatex hi-temp RTV for the cam tensioner adjuster so I'll look into doing that after I perform a test for the oil leakage.

I'll see if I can get my carbs taken off and thoroughly cleaned. I'm pretty sure someone near me has a ultrasonic cleaner. I'll also buy that carb rebuild kit as well.

I did a good look of the welds and I believe they are good but I'm not very experienced at welding so I can't tell all that much. I'll have a friend come check it out to see.

Thanks,

Michael
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There are several ways to do the brake lines. I've bought the line by the foot and attached the ends myself (a couple of minutes with 2 wrenches), bought stock length pre-made lines from an automotive speed & custom catalogue and the one on my CX is a Goodridge line that came with female threaded ends that you screw the fittings you need into. All of these have been bought locally after a conversation with a parts counter person.
I'm sure someone will post links to places they have bought lines made specifically for these bikes too, but when you only need a single line an off the shelf line like the Goodridge would do fine.
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I've found Permatex Silicone Adhesive Sealant to be better than Shoe Goo. Even on shoes!
I've found Permatex Silicone Adhesive Sealant to be better than Shoe Goo. Even on shoes!
Great, I had previously bought Permatex Red so hopefully that should work. I'm looking at getting some 60 mm heatshrink from Aliexpress while I wait for my carb book. Randakk's shipping is quite a bit to Canada, would you know of anything that I should probably get while I'm ordering the carb rebuild kit?
Unless I'm mistaken, Permatex red is for sealing exhaust headers. It might not be the best in other situations.
Permatex red should work but it will stand out and look like crap.

Randakk's shipping is quite a bit to Canada, would you know of anything that I should probably get while I'm ordering the carb rebuild kit?
Not off hand but make sure you order the Randakk's Original Carb Kit and not one of the lower priced kits the new owners sell through his store since he retired. Those lower priced kits are the ones Randakk was always warning people about (lower quality and they include all those needles, jets &c that are so often out of spec and rarely need to be replaced anyway) so you can bet he would never have had them in the store when was in charge.
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To clean the carbs, a small ultrasonic cleaner is a great tool. Not too expensive from Amazon. Lots of good applications for such a unit.
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Permatex red should work but it will stand out and look like crap.


Not off hand but make sure you order the Randakk's Original Carb Kit and not one of the lower priced kits the new owners sell through his store since he retired. Those lower priced kits are the ones Randakk was always warning people about (lower quality and they include all those needles, jets &c that are so often out of spec and rarely need to be replaced anyway) so you can bet he would never have had them in the store when was in charge.
I plan to use some heat shrink tubing on top of the Permatex Red so it shouldn't be visible. Great, I was planning on grabbing the original kit. Have you heard of anyone buying the Athena Gasket Kit, I was considering it if I wanted to replace everything in the future.

To clean the carbs, a small ultrasonic cleaner is a great tool. Not too expensive from Amazon. Lots of good applications for such a unit.
What size would you say is fine? Would this Ultrasonic Cleaner work?
I just got the 6 liter cleaner, and it's been great. More capacity and much longer cycle than my old 2.5 liter.
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What size would you say is fine? Would this Ultrasonic Cleaner work?
That's a little over half a liter. Way too small.
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That's a little over half a liter. Way too small.
What would the smallest size be to get by? I don't have a whole lot of space for something like this.
The 2.5 liter unit will take a pair of carb bodies, but it's not quite deep enough to completely submerge. It does work if you rotate them.
A3 liter unit should work, if it's deep enough. If there's a 3 liter in the same generic line as my 6l, it should have a longer cycle than the 2.5.
About the size of a toaster oven or small microwave oven. Sorta, give or take. Any online offer will likely give overall dimensions.
FWIW, an ultrasonic cleaner is a good thing to have if you expect to work on a lot of carbs but if A) you only have 1 or 2 bikes, B) their carbs don't have big gobs of varnish throughout and C) it will be difficult to find shelf space for one more expensive tool you will hardly ever use this might be your best bet (I've done a couple of sets that way)
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