Oh Dear

4837 Views 50 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Shep, Dec 28, 2010

darrenpage

Discussion Starter · Nov 22, 2010

Hi all. I started my bike up this evening.... No drama for a minute or two as it burbled away then a nasty noise started up like a hard fluttering sound. This came and went until the bike had warmed up completely at which point the noise disappeared again. I don't have much experience with CXs but I guess this is the cam chain tensioner going west? The bike is one of the late uk models with an auto tensioner so there is nothing externally to adjust.

Am I right in assuming it's now an engine out job and replace the chain etc before something expensive happens?

21 - 40 of 51 Posts

darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #21 · Nov 24, 2010

Hi guys. Many thanks one and all for the encouragement. It does sound straightforward but I'm a Brummy lad who's first job was nailing Austin Metros together at the now defunct Austin Rover factory - we were all taught the only tool needed to put one of those right was a Snap On hammer!

I'm afraid that doesn't translate well to motorcycle fettling so I've got everything crossed for a successful job.

Reg in Bristol

· #22 · Nov 24, 2010

NO worries Daz

Remember:

If at first you dont succeed

Get a bigger hammer

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bandit

· #23 · Nov 24, 2010

darren,you will be fine ..............remember ,someone is here to assist nearly 24/7

also.keep tapping that gear shift back in when removing the rear cover

cover 1mm off equals gear shift 1mm in

[its important]

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darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #24 · Nov 28, 2010

Hi all. I decided to try and drop the engine today despite unseasonably early snow on the floor and me having no garage or shed big enough to work inside.

Well guys your advice has been spot on so far. Pottering along at a steady pace allowed me to get the engine out and the water pump off with no sues at all. I'll post a picture of the water pump impeller shortly for comment as the ceramic disc on the back face got left on the camshaft instead of coming away with the impeller as suggested in the manual.

Anyway, I'm now frustrated - the bolts for the back engine cover are out and the gasket seal has been broken but the rear engine casing is refusing to lift off. It's loose and will rock back and forth until there is about a quarter inch gap around the mating face but I've lost the light now so the fun has stopped. Having followed the manual which suggests the rear cover should just lift away can anyone offer advice on what might be making it so reluctant?

Cheers

Daz

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Shep

· #25 · Nov 28, 2010

Put your bike model and year in your Signature.It helps us help you.

I think your bike has a TAI engine that means it's a Transistor Advanced Ignition engine.If so you have to remove the rear Advance and retard plate at the back of the engine,mark the position of the unit so when re-fitting you do NOT get it 180 Deg out and then remove it before you can remove the Rear cover.

ramprat06

· #26 · Nov 28, 2010

I'd like to see a picture of that section, Shep.

Shep

· #27 · Nov 28, 2010

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-gl500-silver-wing-1981-usa_model1072/partslist/E++12.html

should also be covered in the manual.Although that link is for a GL it's the same TAI engine if that is what the OP has.

On a CDI engine you don't need to remove the Advance and Retard unit to get the rear engine cover off.

darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #28 · Nov 29, 2010

Hi - thanks for the info Shep - looking at the diagram you supplied confirms my engine is this type.

Here's a picture of the impeller as removed. There is a small dig in the sidewall of the rubber cup that fits into the underside of the impeller and the the large + small ceramic washers were left on the camshaft when the impeller was lifted off. with a little cleaning these components have mated back together ok.

The small ceramic washer and the cast surface under the rubber cup were very grimy before cleaning. Does the rubber cup just act as a locator for the large washer or does it have a more technical function?

Cheers

Daz

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Reg in Bristol

· #29 · Nov 29, 2010

4

Daz

the rubber cup acts as seal and as a cushion for the rather brittle ceramic seal

If in any doubt its best to renew the whole affair and the Yamaha one is half the

price of the Honda one

The Yamaha part number will be around here somewhere.

Cant get the rear cover off eh?

Excellent !!

I dont often get the chance to play the sanctimonious bastard who says

"I told you to remove the pulser cover and advance unit"

so im sure you'll forgive me for shaking my head and tutting and wagging my finger

self righteous hypocrisy comes so naturally to me y'see

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Interstater

· #30 · Nov 29, 2010

darrenpage said:
Hi - thanks for the info Shep - looking at the diagram you supplied confirms my engine is this type.

Here's a picture of the impeller as removed. There is a small dig in the sidewall of the rubber cup that fits into the underside of the impeller and the the large + small ceramic washers were left on the camshaft when the impeller was lifted off. with a little cleaning these components have mated back together ok.

The small ceramic washer and the cast surface under the rubber cup were very grimy before cleaning. Does the rubber cup just act as a locator for the large washer or does it have a more technical function?

Cheers

Daz

Hi Darren, you are doing well with your project.

The parts look pretty grimey. Do not think of re-using the mechanical seal components. Buy a new seal assembly, it will come with the carbon seal, the ceramic "polo mint", and the rubber cup that holds the polo mint in the back of the impeller. It would be a shame to put it all back together just to have the old seal parts fail shortly after you get it back on the road.

Don't loose the thrust washer that also goes under the impeller, and either replace or anneal the copper washer that goes under the impeller nut. It being soft copper helps lock the nut in place.

Edit: Man, Reg is fast!

ramprat06

· #31 · Nov 29, 2010

"Edit: Man, Reg is fast!"

And cockneyed, but fair.

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darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #32 · Nov 29, 2010

Thanks guys and yes you did tell me! Serves me right for getting all big headed when the engine came out so easily. The only problem now is a week at work which will mean no more tinkering until next Saturday..... If we aren't frozen solid under a couple of foot of snow by then. If this is global warming in action I'll eat my crash hat!!!!

darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #33 · Dec 1, 2010

Hi all. I braved the weather and got the rear cover off this evening. Surprising how easy that was with the electronics removed!

Apologies for the poor quality of this photo light levels were poor and my phone doesn't have a flash - obviously the rotor has to come off yet but the cam chain tensioner looks fully extended to me.... What do you think?

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Reg in Bristol

· #34 · Dec 2, 2010

2

Yep, take a butchers at this

http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=486&start=0

here are the full sized pics courtesy of Bluefox

Before/old chain

After/new chain

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darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #35 · Dec 2, 2010

Thanks Reg. Much better pictures. My tensioner is actually extended even further. The hole in the push rod body that is just appearing in the first photo is fully exposed on my tensioner.

bandit

· #36 · Dec 2, 2010

bandit said:
good video Daz.and a nice looking bike,i agree with the others....that engine could do with coming out.when you do, i think the problem will be obvious

i think you need a new chain Darren.although you dont want all this info,all your part numbers are here http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/149387/ShowPost.aspx

good luck

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darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #37 · Dec 2, 2010

Cracking. Thanks Bandit. It's a relief to find the innards don't appear to be mangled. A straight camchainectomy I can live with. Ill give the block a nice coat of silver enamel whilst it's out too.

Daz

HotFoot

· #38 · Dec 2, 2010

I concur that a new cam chain is appropriate.

The following pic is a visual reference as to what a new installed chain looks like.... and its relation to an arbitrarily chosen reference on the crankshaft cap assembly. The dimension of .350" is nothing found in manuals and will probably vary slightly due to manufacturing tolerances. But it is perhaps good info just for grins and giggles. (The wire is just there to take the slack out out the chain for the photo.) Don't want anyone to think there is supposed to be a wire installed ;^)

Good luck with your project.

Hoppy

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darrenpage

Discussion Starter · #39 · Dec 11, 2010

3

Hi all,

The snow has disappeared so I've finally been able to strip off the alternator rotor and get a good look at the cam chain. First off the chain hasn't struck any bolt heads etc so that was nice. The auto tensioner was at the end of its travel and when I took the assembly apart this is what I found -

The blades look fine to me but look at the damage to the guide bonded to the tensioner - I guess it wouldn't have taken much longer for this to really do some damage.

By the way - this is what the bike looks like when its in one peice.

Cheers

Daz

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Shep

· #40 · Dec 11, 2010

The Auto-Tensioners are still available here in the UK and David slivers do ship internationally,

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CX500-EUROSPORT/part_16412/

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CX500-EUROSPORT/

Note:If the POs had properly serviced the bike I doubt the Auto-tensioner would have given any problems even after a 100k+ miles.

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