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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My brother bought a CX500 bike with a title but the DMV said the engine number didn't match and denied his title application. This was in MN but he recently moved to Oregon. Any ideas on how to help him eventually get an Oregon title? We've been watching craigslist for cheap CX's so we can use those numbers but they don't come up for sale very often and when they do they are expensive or don't have a title. Thanks for any ideas.
 

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it's not the engine numbers that matter - only the frame numbers. Most of these bikes came off the line with non-matching engine vs frame numbers. If there was a problem with an engine, the next in the line was used. I would say it was a rare occurrence that these numbers matched. Check your ownership against the number that is stamped on the frame and/or the certification plate attached to the very front of the frame.
 

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Ok some clarification is needed due to some dumb legal rules in some places.



First are the numbers on the title the numbers on the frame?



I ask this because there are two types of states out there. Right and wrong. In the right state the only numbers that matter are the ones on the frame. In the wrong state it might just be on the engine.



This is where it gets stupid. I'm from Michigan and we title everything off the frame because if a engine blows your not screwed. Well here in Wisconsin they may have seen the light recently but all the titles I have had for Wisconsin bought CX or Gl's go off the numbers on the engine.



If the numbers on your frame match the title then go to the Oregon DMV and process the paperwork. If not then you're probably screwed.
 

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Don't they do VIN checks in your state? Take the bike to the BMV and show the worker where the FRAME number is located.

Engine # in any vehicle means nothing as it's an expendable/replaceable part.

I've been into CXs for over 20 years and I have never seen nor heard of anyone having an engine # that matches the frame # exactly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks for the quick replies. I'm now assuming my brother must have meant that the numbers on the title didn't match the numbers on the bike. And I might take that assumption further and say that the engine is the one that didn't match up with the title.
 

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First are the numbers on the title the numbers on the frame?


The only way I see this problem occurring is as you say, somebody titled the bike using the engine numbers. Otherwise, no state that I know of cares about the engine number, matching or not.



If this is the case, then better to find out now, should there be an accident claim, impound tow etc. in the future, it could turn into a surreal nightmare when these things happen.



DMV's and RMV's never take responsibility for anything either, so it's up to you to check these things.



I once got pulled over and almost had my car towed/impounded. When I registered the car they gave me the wrong plate off the pile at the RMV window. I slapped it on the car (who checks?) and drove it around like that for about two years until a bored State Trooper behind me decided to run the plate. He turned out to be an understanding State Trooper (don't count on too many of those out there) and let me drive it home to resolve things the next day. Had to wait my turn, and not so much as a pro-forma "sorry" from anyone at the RMV when I took the plate in. The "lady" at the window even admonished me for "not checking", I told her maybe the drone who made gave me the plate needed that advise more than I did. AND, to add insult to injury, I had to pay a $25 fee to "change" my plate.
 

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What you can and/or can not do seems to be a closely guarded secret. I see some great deals for CX500s with no papers but, due to the uncertainty of how the process works, or even if it does work, I have to pass. Good luck to your brother in getting his papers in order.
 

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Im not sure if its possible or if it would help your situation but here in Tx u can get a bonded title, meaning theres a year or so waiting period that someone could claim that vin # as stolen ( which prob wont happen) if no one makes a claim against it then it gets officially titled in your name.



Then you can go and get all the necessary registrations and all that other stuff no prob.



I had to do this on one of my cars because the seller lost the title, the state waited....and waited. The original owner never claimed it was stolen then everything was officially in

my name.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
"A spanner in the works." -My brother says the state of MN has the title the previous owner supplied. Now what???
 

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Ok I admit I had to check. Sure enough my numbers don't match. Frame #: CX500-2105389 Engine #: CX500E-2105322 Who'd have thunk it. PeaceOwen
 

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Those numbers are close enough to be possibly the original numbers. The discrepency is only 57.



Honda numbers don't actually match in the way some the old pommy stuff did.



I beleive some of the pommy motors didn't have the engine number stamped until the motor was installed/about to be installed in it's frame.
 

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I believe in Connecticut motor vehicles over 25 years old only require a bill of sale signed by the previous owner
. If I was writing up a bill of sale for a bike I wanted to register, I would get the VIN right. All assuming the VIN didn't show up on a stolen vehicle database. When I buy a used vehicle I always check the VIN on the paperwork matches the vehicle, it's a disaster when DMV is the first to discover it. Besides, it could be a GREAT negotiating point with the seller (if you could use it as a parts machine).
 

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MA is even better (worse?) than Conn. All this state cares about is the revenue. When I went to register the GL, the paperwork was a cluster fudge. The title had been signed over 3 times without getting registered, it was dated 10 years ago by the original owner, to the guy whose name was illegible, the "bill of sale" I had was written on the back of a lost dog flyer, signed by a guy who wasn't on any of the title endorsements. My insurance agent had a good laugh when I showed up at this office with the paperwork. Got to the RMV, they looked it all over and said, "only way you're getting a title and registration is to pay the excise tax and sales tax with a time penalty." All said and done they got my $200 and I got a clean title and registration. I suspect could have gone in with a stone tablet signed by Moses, as long as they got their money, I would have left with a clean title. FWIW-they had to look up the value online, the GL's are listed as "Silverwings", lost a good 15 minutes while she tried to look up the value of a "GL500" etc.



To the original post, how about some details? You still haven't mentioned whether he actually has a title for the Vin on the frame, or someone screwed up in the past and titled the bike with the engine number. I suspect it's the latter.



Since I've been paying attention, there have only been 3 bikes I've come across (all virtually) which had matching engine/frame numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm waiting to hear back on the exact reason the dmv gave for rejecting the title app. The state does have the title he and the seller signed. I wonder if they will send it back to him if he says he moved out of state. I think they wanted him to go in and get the bike inspected but he couldn't do it before the move to Oregon.
 

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When I changed the title on my bike a few years ago in MN I have go give them the engine number off the bike. Is there a chance the engine number was not imputed correctly by the DMV? My frame and engine numbers do not match.
 

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When I changed the title on my bike a few years ago in MN I have go give them the engine number off the bike. Is there a chance the engine number was not imputed correctly by the DMV? My frame and engine numbers do not match.
When I registered mine in '07, she asked for the engine number (which wasn't on the original title from '79.) She said it didn't need to match the frame number, but did need to be recorded.



I can see there being an issue if the recorded engine number doesn't match the one in the bike (from an undocumented engine swap.) But as common as that is with bikes of this age, I'm surprised anyone cares.



If the registrar thought the engine and frame numbers need to match, he/she was misinformed. Try to get a supervisor on the phone (may involve multiple calls), and maybe you can get the question resolved and your title returned.



Fortunately, I have a bill of sale and a history for the engine that will go into whatever frame I end up using in the AdvWing.





R
 

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In NC, it's the frame numbers that matter, not the engine number. I had a hell of a time getting my bike titled when I got it. Te guy who signed the title over did not get it notarized. So I had to find a notary who would just take my word that the signature was his. That is not an easy thing to do, notaries are selected for their honesty. But eventually I found one.
 

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Man, I'm glad I live in arkansas. I have no idea if the numbers on my silverwing match and since the DMV doesn't care, it's all good. I'm curious though. In the states where it seems to matter, how do they know they don't match. Are they recorded on an inspection document or something. They did away with vehicle inspections here years ago so it's not an issue anymore.
 

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Stupidly enough, my bike has only ever been registered on it's engine number.



When I registered it in my name a couple of years ago I offered the DMV the Vin/frame number and they weren't interested to record the info.



While it's not difficult to register a vehicle that has disappeared from the system [some vehicles that have been out of registration for a long time aren't in the system. If they weren't registered when the system was changed over to computer they don't officially exist but can generally still be registered OK as long as they're not on the lost or stolen register].



The problem is, being only registered on an engine number my bike will probably need to aquire a new identity if I ever swap motors.



Why would our government insist that vehicles be fitted with a VIN plate and then not use it?
 
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