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No Replacement for displacement

6K views 57 replies 36 participants last post by  marshallf3 
#1 ·
What is the deal with everybody I know who rides wanting a bigger and bigger bike?

A guy at work was telling me how he wants this 1800cc monster! Dear GOD that is a bigger engine than his Honda Civic has and he wants it on two wheels!?!?!

I do not get it. I am the only person I know who has a 250 and is happy (for the most part) with it. It is a great commuter. The CX will also be a great commuter (when I get it running) but it is still "only" a 500.

Can anyone help me understand this mentality?

I mean you can only go so fast legally and it is not like the 1800s cruise at 1500 rpm at 65 mph or anything crazy like that.

Thanks!
 
#3 ·
Yeah my thought too!

Or they think it will have a better suspension and ride smoother...

Not sure.
 
#4 ·
Status, Ego, Pride, Lust...... and as you said, obsession. All false traits inherent in the humanity we all possess in one form or another. Some could say it's sad, wasted and perhaps futile, but it does exist.



The part that is hard to get, is we also try to convince others, or justify it in some way. That's when our real personalities come out.



Take Jeremy for example. Look at what he is accomplishing with his bike, with little else, and yet it is a superb life experience, for the soul and the heart. Even for us as we live it vicariously through him.



Next time those guys try to justify it, ask them to explain how it betters their life, and those around them. Then when they are done huffing and puffing, tell them about Jeremy. Better yet, show them his blog.















Or ask them if they have an extra set of earplugs, you don't need them on your bike.
 
#6 ·
Sorry who is Jeremy? I am not familiar with his blog. Can you send a link?



Thanks!
 
#7 ·
I will bet your truck gets about the same MPG as that 2300 too!

I will clue everybody in when I figure it out.

I have a list of these mysteries to figure out so it may take a while.
 
#9 ·
Good question. I don't get it either.

I think many are just mis-informed and really believe they need more cubic inches to get better performance. Which, in a Harley's case is true because of the bad engine design.



I remember meeting someone a few years ago in Yellowstone and he couldn't believe I was riding around the mountains on "just a 650". I just shook my head and said "whatever". I wanted to say, "hey let's ride a while and see if your big displacement Harley wannabe can keep up with my "just a 650" in the twisties".
 
#10 ·
I get the displacement to a point but after that point it seems to be lost. Personally I think up to 1100cc is just fine. Then there's overkill. But if you have that much you should be using it. If you're riding 2up, towing a trailer or of extreme size.



I do want more but I don't want to go nuts. The cx does a great job up to a certain point where weather and crazy hills make life suck. But if there weren't any hills or tornados you would never need anything else.



Also to add to the overkill factor is horsepower. Our bikes aren't great but they aren't bad. But if you compare them to similar models with fuel injection and other computers they lack 1/2 the horsepower they should/could have.





I do like Waynes response too. I really need to get a good ride on a 650. For all I know it could be all the bike I ever need.
 
#12 ·
Different strokes for different folks, it's all good IMHO. It also depends on what you want to do with the bike. While I enjoy the heck out of my 750cc Ural sidecar rig, AND my GL500I, neither would be my 'go-to' choice if I wanted to tour the USA. Something closer to a GL1100 or thereabouts would get the nod.



the Ural cruises best at 50-55mph and I find my GL sweet spot is about 10mph higher than that. Neither would be an ideal super-slab cruiser, but for now they are what I have so they are what I ride. The GL handles very well and can keep up with the big kids if called upon to do so. I have had it scorching along the interstate at 70+ now and then, but it is obviously not its happy place - lol
 
#13 ·
remember the commercial in the "robocop" movie....



"The SUX-6000,... Because Bigger, Is Better"
 
#14 ·
Not just in the US, it's the same thing here in Norway. People are "cubic crazy", and buy the biggest they can. Then the bike stands in the garage for some years, they sell it, and never ride motorcycles again.



Another, much more serious problem, is the total lack of recruitment to the motorcycle community. Young people just don't buy motorcycles anymore. Every year, the average age for active motorcyclists goes up by one year. The average age for bikers in Norway is now nearing 50. In 15-20 years time there will be an awful lot of motorcycles on the market, and no buyers...
 
#17 ·
I agree with some of what has been said but it is horses for courses.Much as I like the CX500/GL500 family if I were doing a lot of touring miles I'd most likely want a more modern lager machine.Less strain on the engine and of course newer metal.This is not to say that or bikes can't do it as been proven before,





"The Road to Moscow",



http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/escape/epicrides/122_0104_moscow/index.html



As for the Rocket III it's not that bad on fuel,

http://www.west-knights.com/rocket.htm



40+ mpg(UK gallon)



There is a trend over here in the UK for riders ditching a lot of the more powerful larger machines because of speed cameras and they are always complaining but my take on that is if you think public roads are for racing you are just riding to be a,"Donor".If they think they are that good get on a race day/track.



Some years ago I road out with a pal who had an 1100 Ninja.He wanted to zoom off so I said I'd meet him some 35 miles later at a known Bike Cafe/stop.I just road within the speed limits+ tax ;-) and arrived less than 15 mins behind him.He said,"Oh you weren't that far behind".I said,"I would have been there sooner but I stopped for a cigarette"




He had used nearly twice the fuel I had and always complained how he went though tyres and their cost as he told me when he throttles the bike he can get as low as 20 mpg UK gallon
 
#18 ·
I've owned several Harley-Davidson's over the years and really liked them a lot but I no longer go on long rides. If you're going across USA or Russia or Africa or anyplace where you're racking up big mileage, those bikes are great. For those of you who have never ridden a big heavy bike, they are confidence inspiring on the highway because you don't get blown around as much as you do on a lighter bike when you pass or get passed by a big truck. You still get blown around but not as much.



The last Harley I owned was a 2001 Road King. What a bike. Outstanding comfort. Looked great and all the acceleration you could ask for at the twist of the throttle. Very little gear shifting was required. These days I no longer feel the need for break neck acceleration plus I like the quasi-vintage bikes of the 70's.



Now I'm a completely urban rider so I don't want all that weight to wrestle around parallel parking. Additionally I really like cycles from the 1970's. Yes, my CX500 is an '82 but it seems '70's to me. If I find a perfect condition '78 or '79, I'll gladly swap my '82 for it.
 
#19 ·
As usual a lot of great responses!

I can see the touring point of view.

If I was planning on cruising through a few time zones a newer more comfortable bike would probably be a good idea.

I do not really much understand towing a trailer with a bike but hey to each their own.



I guess since I have never ridden a bike bigger than a 650 I probably have a limited point of view.

Thanks!
 
#20 ·
Yes but consider this Tony.If you were doing this journey on a modern big touring machine who would really care and where would be the real adventure be?



You are doing it on a 30 year old-ish motorcycle and will have memories and something to talk about for years.Ride safe
 
#23 ·
I agree that the type of riding one does, as well as the rider's age, tends to dictate the size and style of bike needed. Hats off to Jeremy, and at his age I made several very long hauls on a 350, but at age 51 I wouldn't consider doing them again on anything less than an 1100. For the day rides I now undertake, the CX is completely adequate, but by the end of eight hours I do feel it. If I am able to retire atsome point I will consider a larger bike and perhaps again do some touring, with no tents this time around however!
 
#25 ·
never having been a touring type, I really do not understand motorcycles with engines larger than my 1968 VW Superbeetle...





I wonder about high speed braking and turns on 750+ lb bikes... with ABS?





I spanked the knobbys off a BMW R90 the other day on the Deuce, ( I think it's bigazz rider gave me a +40lb advantage
) I can keep up with the 1200 spertsters, v rods, and many larger displacement MCs.



90MPH is plenty fast enough for me on open roads, more importantly for me, the CX500 has plenty enough torque and acceleration to get me out of dutch in city traffic, while not being so wild as to tempt me into stupid fast city driving. I have fixed the brakes to where it whoa's down pretty good as well.



I had an NX250 dual sport which also was a fun city bike capable of 95mph (honda published spec)





I don't begrudge the displacement starved,



It takes all kinds, and I figure the best motorcycle is the one under me rolling along with the wind in my ears... My favorite bike so far was my 1993 CB750, the CX is slowly taking it's place...
 
#26 ·
I see that the big cruisers have their place in the interstate and long trips but I don’t see the appeal of driving it to work or the super market for errands. Seems like it would be like launching the queen Mary every time you get it out. My gl works great for me. I did ride it on t I86 for a couple hours and will never do that again. But I don’t think I would feel any less vulnerable with a car in front of me, one on my bumper, and an 18 wheeler to left that is trying to pass the 3 of us who are going 70 ,and I can hear his retreads starting to separate if I had an extra 800CC between my legs. I choose to stay off the Interstate at all costs. If the whole point of a motorcycle trip is a motorcycle trip then why get a giant machine that is almost as comfy as a car and go as fast as you can on the 4 lane? Just get a car.
 
#27 ·
In many ways the Cx is all the bike I need

as we know they're nippier and nimbler than many give them credit for

I'm sometimes surpised that after all this time riding a CX I havent got bored with them.



I bought a 1000cc BMW K100RS cos it was cheap and I fancied it

Round the town its a brute and too damned heavy to flick about like the CX.

but on the motorway its rock solid at XXX mph and will cruise at speeds that

would kill my old CX.



I reckon a lot of it is just pose factor and recreational use

I saw an 1800 goldwing outside the local supermarket

Lovel shiny thing with all the doo dahs and stuff on it

but from the look of it thats as far as the owner ever goes.

thats a lot of dosh for a shopping trolley. :)



Big engines for big miles OK, but the rest of the time its a shiny toy

I reckon its a seasonal thing too.

Round here in the winter you never see harleys and goldwings etc

but when summer approaches there's chrome all over the place



unless its raining of course...........................
 
#28 ·
Okay, I have to say something here.



I love my GL500 and equally loved my GL 650s in the past. Yes they are all I need for myself.



Now ... for long distance touring with my wife those bikes are not as well suited. My BMW 1200LTD is a prime example. It gets better mileage than my GL500!!! Go figure. Also, when touring I pull a camper, which is bigger than I need, but it keeps my wife very happy.



Pulling the trailer makes a very small dent in the mileage. I drop from 50mpg without the trailer at 65 mph to about 45mpg with the trailer. I had a 750 BMW K75 and the mileage went from 55mpg to 28mpg. I later had a R1100 BMW and the mileage with that bike went from 50mpg to 40mpg.



So what becomes obvious in this case is that the bigger the bike the better the mileage pulling a trailer.



One of those great mysteries in life is that almost all BMW bikes get the same mileage ... even in many different engine sizes. Tell me that the smaller bikes shouldn't get better mileage than a larger bike without a load!



So, while my BMW does shift out of 4th at 135mph, the bike rarely sees that and it serves as a workhorse hauling around my wife, myself and the camper when touring long distance.



It also is so comfortable that my wife and I have several times had days in excess of 700 miles. My wife refers to her motorcycle seat as her "Barcalounger". She often sleep on the back of the bike going down the highway. My 87 year old mother also likes to fall asleep on the back of the bike.



So comfort, pulling power, gas mileage can be some of the reasons for the larger bikes, not just speed or horsepower.
 
#29 ·
Thanks, David. Well put. I have often said that if Mrs Wayne was interested in touring with me I'd be on a bigger bike. But by myself, my GL650 was all i needed to get across the country and now my BMW 750 is the same. They do a fine job at racking up the miles getting to the fun roads and do a fine job in the twisties when I get there.
 
#31 ·
"Can anyone help me understand this mentality?"

This is a very strange thread, very strange. I have a friend that let's me drive all his cars. Sunday I drove his Mercedes McLaren SLR 620 BHP 575 ft lb torque, giant tires twin turbo-charged, twin intercoolers, cost $503,000.00 ETC. One heavy push on the throttle and you will never ponder or ask that question again. Trying to be polite. What does it matter what anyone else likes or for what reason? "No replacement for displacement", try big turbos!

Cheers, 50gary

I know this is not the SLR it's under the car cover in the background. I didn't have a picture handy so I thought

I'd share this one. F-430 Scuderia 16M one of two in this color Bianco Fugi, previously own by Tony Kanan.























77%
 
#33 ·
"Can anyone help me understand this mentality?"

This is a very strange thread, very strange. I have a friend that let's me drive all his cars. Sunday I drove his Mercedes McLaren SLR 620 BHP 575 ft lb torque, giant tires twin turbo-charged, twin intercoolers, cost $503,000.00 ETC. One heavy push on the throttle and you will never ponder or ask that question again. Trying to be polite. What does it matter what anyone else likes or for what reason? "No replacement for displacement", try big turbos!

Cheers, 50gary


Displacement doesn't mean much many times, it's a mental thing that some people have. Others, like many a riding friend I have, just like huge bikes. I ride with a friend who has a Valkarie, I think it's a monstrosity, but he loves it, that's all that counts, it's his bike. Most cars get better mileage than his bike, riding with his has gotten better now that he's installed a HUGE gas tank.



My 20+ year old Audi has a measly 3.6 liter normally aspirated engine, but it can (and does on occasion) cruise at 152 MPH, the same car with a manual trans tops out a few MPH higher. With the advances in technology and engine management, displacement doesn't represent what it used to, but it's a lifelong mindset for most people.



Ford gets 540HP out of 5.4L with a supercharger. Porsche gets 385HP out of 3.8L.



As for bikes, the BMW K1200S would give the McLaren a run for the money with less or equal displacement to some other bikes that seem to use all that displacement for little more than noise making.
 
#32 ·
Gotta love that. Guys here are trying to hold together $0-2000 bikes and this guys got a 1/2 million dollar car in the garage surrounded by friends.



I like watching Top Gear because in North America any dollar figure they say is basically double. Just crazy.
 
#34 ·
Ok, my 2 penny's worth. First of all, huge displacement means that usable hp and torque can be had at a lower rpm. My HD has what, 55hp out of a 1.6l v2 engine, but because of the engine design, it has 90 or so ft lbs of torque at 3000 rpm. At 75 with the cruise on in OD, the engine is turning 2750 rpm. The v-strom,has a 996cc engine, and puts out about 100 hp. it cruises on the highway at 75 in OD at about 4500 rpm. The cx is well documented, My GS250 pulls me around just fine. Gets really good mileage, but will it get better mileage than the Harley at 75mph. I don't think because to maintain that speed you just about wide open. Will the Suzuki tour, of course it will but not as good as the CX. Two up in the twisties, the V strom is my choice. Doing a multiple hour highway slog, I'll take the Harley, well not any more because the wife got it, but I digress. The point is displacement is relevant only to a point to where it becomes irrelevant. A 1.8 liter v twin, show off.

2.3l triple, show off. But I do have a friend who has a rocket 3 and I have ridden it. It was interesting but I wouldn't have bought it myself. My friend does not rationalize his purchases when it comes to vehicles, his wife does that. I asked why, he looked at me and said,"I want it, I can afford it" no other justification required. Don't you just love America.

a
 
#41 ·
it has 90 or so ft lbs of torque at 3000 rpm. At 75 with the cruise on in OD, the engine is turning 2750 rpm.


If I ever need a bike for stump pulling or boat towing, this would be a big plus.




Sorry to hear about you having to give her up though, there will be plenty of opportunities to replace it.
 
#35 ·
Ok, my 2 penny's worth. First of all, huge displacement means that usable hp and torque can be had at a lower rpm. My HD has what, 55hp out of a 1.6l v2 engine, but because of the engine design, it has 90 or so ft lbs of torque at 3000 rpm. At 75 with the cruise on in OD, the engine is turning 2750 rpm. The v-strom,has a 996cc engine, and puts out about 100 hp. it cruises on the highway at 75 in OD at about 4500 rpm. The cx is well documented, My GS250 pulls me around just fine. Gets really good mileage, but will it get better mileage than the Harley at 75mph. I don't think because to maintain that speed you just about wide open. Will the Suzuki tour, of course it will but not as good as the CX. Two up in the twisties, the V strom is my choice. Doing a multiple hour highway slog, I'll take the Harley, well not any more because the wife got it, but I digress. The point is displacement is relevant only to a point to where it becomes irrelevant. A 1.8 liter v twin, show off.

2.3l triple, show off. But I do have a friend who has a rocket 3 and I have ridden it. It was interesting but I wouldn't have bought it myself. My friend does not rationalize his purchases when it comes to vehicles, his wife does that. I asked why, he looked at me and said,"I want it, I can afford it" no other justification required. Don't you just love America.

a
 
#37 ·
I appreciate all the answers. IT seems to boil down to two schools of thought.

1) I want it and I like it so why not?



That is cool. No judgment I just cannot comprehend it.



2) If I am doing something (Riding two up, have heavy bags, tow a trailer...) specif it can be very helpful and improve performance.



Makes sense there. I can go along with it.

I was thinking of this topic in terms of my daily commute mostly. If my little 250 had a 6th gear I think I would ride it everywhere except touring. I can see where touring a bigger engine would help a lot.



Thanks again.
 
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