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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just purchased an 83 CX650 custom in pieces. Guy that I got it from said the starter clutch was bad. I have done some reading around the forum and found that the 650 starter is weak and should be replaced with a GL500 starter. I also have heard that there are 3 bolts to watch out for. The motor was already pulled and the cover taken off the side so I don't know what has come off already. I did notice the plate with teeth under the stator is loose and spins freely and looks like it may be bent. I also read somewhere that getting an entire assembly from a gl500 will prevent me from having to loosen the bolts and will make the setup more reliable. I would like advice on what I should do to get this back together and running and where the best/cheapest place to get parts, gaskets, etc. I am pretty mechanically inclined, just not familiar with this specific engine. I included some pictures to help. Thank you.











 

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The 650 starter is the same starter as the 500's, but may have been worked a little harder. I would open up the current starter and give it a good cleaning. Also do the alternate ground modification on it. There are threads here and on Shep's site on how to do both.



The three bolts I think you are referring to are the Torx head bolts that hold the starter clutch assembly. If these have been loosened, you should replace them and re-torque to specifications. Look at the area where the rollers sit on the rotor. They can show scuffing which is probably OK, but if the area is rough enough to be caught with a fingernail, the rotor needs replacing too. I would replace the springs and the roller also if I was keeping the original rotor.



You may be better off trying to source a good rotor from a 500 rather than messing with yours if you have several issues.



Not to be the bearer of more bad news, but it also appears that your cam chain has reached close to end of life. If you can see a hole in the adjuster, it is close to it's maximum travel. Note: Not all auto adjusters have a hole in the rod under the spring, but from the picture, yours appears to be extended quite a bit.



Parts can be sourced from e-bay for things like the rotor. I like to use Honda parts for the rear cover and O rings. The cam chain is about$90 from Honda, I noticed that partsnmore.com has them for $60, along with some other fair deals on parts. Don't forget to add shim washers for the shifter and starter drive if they are missing from your parts.



It looks like you have some fun before it is roadworthy. Add your location and your bikes model to your profile page, there may be someone close by that wants to help. Welcome to the forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Starter - I found the cleaning and alternate ground procedures and I will do that next.



Rotor - It looks to be in good shape. I am a little confused as to where the rollers and springs are, I cleaned out the inside of it and my fingernail can catch the edge a little bit where the rectangular shapes are.



Cam chain - The bike will be lucky to see 4 or 5 thousand miles in the next 5 years it also only has 12k miles. I don't have much of a budget to put into the bike. Do you think the cam chain is satisfactory enough for just some casual riding. The gentleman said the bike was running perfectly, it just had to be drift started.



I took some more pictures of the rotor/gear. The gear pictures seems to have a bit of a wobble and spins freely, is this normal?







 

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1. Replace your cam chain - it is worn out from the pictures

2. If that gear behind the rotor spins both ways - the starter clutch HAS to be replaced..it should only spin one way and totally lock up in the reverse direction..



doesn't matter if you only ride it casually or not, you will be back in the motor again if you don't.

3. Is the stator good ??
 

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Ok so I will put the cam chain and starter clutch on my list. As far as I know the stator is good, is there a way to test it?
With 12K miles on the bike; it would be good to have a picture of the chain behind the flywheel before making a final decision. It seems that it shouldn't need replaced with that low amount of miles.



You'll have to pull the flywheel anyhow to get at the starter clutch. People here could give better evaluation after pics are taken of the back side of the flywheel and the toothed wheel.



Does it spin in either direction as the one poster asked?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quick update:



I am ordering a M20 x 1.5 x 60mm bolt from Fastenal to pull the rotor/flywheel off, said it would arrive in 3 days.



The gear does freewheel in both directions, is the best course of action to just order a gl500 rotor/flywheel/gear combo off of eBay?



I also noticed I am missing the impeller for the water pump(makes me wonder what else may be missing), I need to find a source for that as it is not available from Honda anymore. Recent check of eBay didn't turn any up either.
 

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I'd wait until you get the flywheel off to decide about getting a new starter clutch. Sometimes the starter clutch can be gunked up and the little spring loaded cylinders don't pop out because of the gunk. Sometimes one of the torx bolts is broken or they're loose but all the parts are okay. Just replace the bolts, locktite them in and torque properly. Other times, the torx bolts have loosened, the little cylinders have gotten galled up and you just replace the whole thing.



Water pump impeller can be found on ebay. No impeller means you also have to get a new mechanical seal. That's because part of the mechanical seal sits inside the back of the impeller. You're probably also missing the impeller thrust washer (Honda p/n 90453-415-000) which is vital and the acorn nut that holds the impeller on.
 

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#1. You do not need to replaced the torx bolts unless you remove them.

#2. You do not need to remove them to replace rollers or springs.

#3. You only replace them if they are loose. Otherwise, leave them alone!

#4. If you do loosen them, replace them with new ones and put loc-tite on the threads of the new ones.

#5. Yes, sometimes the clutch gear can spin freely in both directions if the rollers are a bit gummed up. They may not be bad, just dirty.



ALSO, during all your engine work USE A TORQUE WRENCH!!



Goto my drop box link below for a complete pdf file of the official cx650 shop manual.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19136639/83 CX650C Shop Manual.pdf

It is a big file and it takes awhile to load up onto your screen. Be patient! After it is fully loaded up, save it to your hard drive. This darn thing sells for $35-$50 online. It is free. Do not sell it.



P.S. I agree that you do not have enough miles to replace the chain. In any case, if the tensioner is extended far out, replace the chain. Also replace the mech seal in the back cover. Do all this stuff and you should not have to pull the cover for another 40k when the chain should be inspected again. If you drive like a grandma the chain could go 50k, but I wouldnt trust it.



ALSO - look under general discussion, quick reference for all the links to most all types of repairs.
 

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If the tapered main shaft is gouged up from the torque of the needle bearings due to bad rollers(mine was), All you can do is use a fine file and a fine polishing stone to get the shaft as smooth as possible. So far, I have put 20k on my bike with no problems.

During reassembly, put just a thin light film of grease on the needle bearing race, and also on the outside surface of the gear collar shown above. This helps during the initial engine start after all this work. Also before you start your engine, remove the head covers and squirt oil into the valves and springs. Also remove the cam chain inspection cover and squirt a ton of oil everywhere. This will help with good lubrication after all this work.
 

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I should have posted this picture first.

After you break the clutch assembly free from the shaft with the puller bolt, remember to hold the gear onto the clutch housing with your hands and slide the two off the shaft as one unit. Only gravity is holding the two together. Other wise the gear will fall out of the housing and the 3 rollers will fall on the work table. Possibly the pins and springs can also pop out. Not a big deal, you can put it all back together again, but it is upsetting when the whole works falls apart on you, and you could also lose parts on the floor.

It happened to me the first time. Very irritating.

Oh, When tightening down the puller bolt to break the assembly free from the shaft, I used an impact wrench and socket on it, and set the impact wrench to low power. Easy. Otherwise, I'm not sure how you keep the shaft from turning as you tighten down the puller bolt. Possibly get it turned in as tight as possible, and then lightly tap on the head of the puller bolt with a hammer. LIGHTLY. Tighten and tap, tighten and tap.

The assembly is on a tapered shaft. It is the vibration from the tapping that actually breaks the mating parts free. Much like removing a tie rod on a car. Although you need tenderness in this case.

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So I finally got the m20 x 1.5 bolt from Fastenal after 3 weeks of waiting, got the rotor off and this is what I found.



Here is the cam chain let me know what you think. If I can get away with leaving it that would be good. It will be seldom ridden by a 60+ year old man who hasn't ridding a motorcycle in decades.








Here is the back of the rotor and parts:







Here is the starter gear, I get the feeling that this is not supposed to be able to be separated like this.



 

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well,you need a new chain,in my opinion
 

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Here is the starter gear, I get the feeling that this is not supposed to be able to be separated like this.





Yeah, that's not good...



Not the end of the world though, plenty of used parts around here and there. There is a guy parting out a GL650 here on the forum - link.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Would these motor parts be interchangeable between the 500 and 650?



Cam chain?

Starter gear?



I found a cheap cam chain for a cx650 eurosport is that the same?
 

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Would these motor parts be interchangeable between the 500 and 650?



Cam chain?

Starter gear?



I found a cheap cam chain for a cx650 eurosport is that the same?
im pretty sure the chain is the same.

starter gear,ill defer
 

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Yes sir the starter gear was originally part number 28110-415-010 (supercede 28110-MF5-000) which is interchangeable with the other CX/GL models.



Are you purchasing a new cam chain?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes sir the starter gear was originally part number 28110-415-010 (supercede 28110-MF5-000) which is interchangeable with the other CX/GL models.



Are you purchasing a new cam chain?


If I can get one cheap, why not. But I don't want to put $100 into one if I don't absolutely need it.
 
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