[chris41182]

I found that while looking around today. I know that i has been discussed that having your stator rewound can be expensive, I haven't had to do it yet, but maybe this would be a better option since its brand new.



http://www.jpcycles.com/product/ZZ36153?N=28009912+28003198

 

[Blindstitch]

I don't think that one is correct for the cx.



My rule of thumb is if it is a cdi bike then the stator should cost $213 or greater. If it costs less than that it's for a ti bike.

 

[DaveF]

Even though the brand name says Accel that stator looks just like one from Electrosport. I suspect it's been rebranded. At least for me, I'll pass on this one.

 

[TonyG]

Even though the brand name says Accel that stator looks just like one from Electrosport. I suspect it's been rebranded. At least for me, I'll pass on this one.

Thanks for chimining in Dave. I noticed the wires running very close to the bolt pattern. What stators have you found to be of good design at this time.?

 

[cxer4]

Maybe we are more fortunate in the UK but Wemoto (www.wemoto.com) supply ZAB type for $180 US & the later ones for $120 US, delivered stateside. Just about the same price in the UK as we pay local tax but gain on the postage rate. If there is enough interest, I could negotiate a discount, maybe. I have no connection with the company other than to buy stuff & haven't been disappointed yet.

No, they don't have '82- camchain tensioner blades & neither does anyone else I can find.

On the subject of generators, has anyone else come to the conclusion that they are way too powerful? 200W+ means over 16A. The things seem to fail due to local overheating, which is related to current squared ie a lot. If you try to be brave & go out in the dark, you might need 80-100W for lights. Without the lights, almost all the current is shorted in the regulator & performs no useful funnction. I suppose you could warm your left hand on the reg but otherwise it is just wasted. The ignition system has its own coils if CDI & takes precious little current if transistor. So we don't appear to need all this output. What we do need is lower output, from taking a few turns off each bobbin to reduce the voltage & hence the current. The lower temperature would help a long & happy life. Not for the rider, the stator. Does anyone have a tatty but working stator & the time to try a reduced output as above?

 

[339]

I found that while looking around today. I know that i has been discussed that having your stator rewound can be expensive, I haven't had to do it yet, but maybe this would be a better option since its brand new.



http://www.jpcycles.com/product/ZZ36153?N=28009912+28003198

Keep in mind that in these old CX engines, the stator coils sit in the engine with oil, and when the oil gets hot, the resin around the coils can melt and destroy the functioning of the stator. I doubt coils for other bikes will be able to withstand the heat.

 

[Abes_CW]

Even though the brand name says Accel that stator looks just like one from Electrosport. I suspect it's been rebranded. At least for me, I'll pass on this one.

RM Stators used electrosport stock photos for their website, but their stators are not ES's. Mine looked nothing like the photo, I emailed them and they said emphatically they weren't Electrosports. Could be the same story here.

 

[Sidecar Bob]

I highly doubt that any epoxy suitable for potting electrical parts will be "melted" by the heat from the oil. Many, many bikes run their stators in (or at least splashed by) the oil because the oil actually helps cool the stator, which typically will run hotter than the oil in the sump.



As for reducing the output of the alternator, I don't think this would make the stator last longer. You have a 55W headlight, 30W of instrument lights, tail lights, marker lights &c. Then you turn on the turn signals and they draw another 46W or so. Add another 46W or so for the brake lights.



Your alternator is rated at 200W*. It can't produce that unless the engine is turning over at something like 2500 or 3000 RPM. At idle it produces more like 75W - with just the original electrical equipment that's not enough to power everything so the rest of the power has to come from the battery. If you are just sitting at a traffic light with your brakes on and your turn signals flashing for a couple of minutes you will probably notice the headlight dimming every time the signals flash, but that's OK because as soon as you pull away the output will go back up and your battery will recharge.



Using the starter motor (even with the headlight off) really drains the battery but as soon as the engine starts the alternator recharges it.



The power available for recharging the battery comes from difference between the power required for the lights &c and the maximum alternator output. If you reduce the alternator output (or add a lot of extra electrical loads like handlebar heaters & extra lights) there won't be enough left over to keep the battery charged and you will have to connect a charger periodically (I used to have to do this every week in the winter when I run the heaters and the extra lighting most of the time).



With the voltmeter and alternator, I have been able to observe what the electrical system is doing a bit better than most of us. I have seen the alternator supply up to 10A after a hard start in cold conditions, dropping to 5A after a few seconds and eventually to nearly zero as the battery charges. During this time the voltage usually starts off a bit under 13V and rises to 14V.



I recommend that folks with later models upgrade to GL1000/1100 stators on the rare occasions that they need to replace the stator or if the engine is apart anyway and they plan on running extra electrical accessories. Unfortunately, I don't know of a more powerful stator for the CDI models. Since



* Later models with TI have 252W alternators but the extra is used up powering the ignition system.

 

[TonyG]

Thanks Bob for the information.

Here is the RMStator on Ebay for $120.00



Dave, Do you have any experience with these?



And here is a rewinding service for about $82.00 plus shipping your stator to them. Anyone know anything about Tim Parrot?

 

[cxer4]

Bob,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. You have done the research that myself & other armchair critics have not.

I assume that what your ammeter is reading is charge to the battery, not alternator output. The alternator actually runs flat-out at all times due to the nature of the regulator. What you are seeing is the 'excess' current available to recharge the battery after using the starter & at tick-over speeds. As I suspected, it does not take long for this charging current to reach zero. If the alternator was undersized, this charge time would be significant.

As you also point out, you have extra loads & I guess sometimes you have the machine ticking-over for lengthly periods as you have time to observe the battery voltage falling. The actual use of the machine must play a big part in the current demand. My own use is very light compared to yours as we don't have any significant trafic on the 'B' roads (that's one step up from goat tracks) we normally use on ride-outs. We don't often stop for more than a few seconds at junctions & the motor is normally running at 3000+ rpm. Most of us here are not brave enough to go out when it's dark. I would suggest that you & I are at the extreme ends of the current demand spectrum.

So we know that the alternator is always giving max current at a given speed and that a fair proportion of this output is totally wasted in my case. To return to the basic question, why do the stators fail? I have several where only one coil is black & has clearly failed. I would guess this one coil has a joint in it. Or if not a joint then maybe the wires have chafed due to the wire having a slight ability to move, especially when expanded due to high temperatures. Maybe I could get out of my armchair & unwind the coils, manyana. Thanks for mentioning there is an even higher-output stator available. Does the standard regulator cope with this output? Do you have one fitted? How hot does the reg get? Questions, questions!

 

[Shep]

I have two none epoxy coated G47 stators running in my CDI CXs.Both are from old basket case engines and still giving good service.One of them has 18,000 miles with that bike/engine and god knows how many miles/years it was in service before that.

I think the biggest cause of coil breakdown is running the engines hotter than they should be/Bad cooling system but also of course dirty/tired oil with fine metal debris would act as an abrasive to wires as would neglected and left unused engines for years with old acidic oil on the windings/connections.



I run with my lights on all the time as UK/European CX models are wired differently than North American bikes inasmuch as we have a lighting off/on<park)/main headlight switch on the throttle assembly so most of the current is used in my case.Also both my CX have electric fans which when in use consume 2 amps but I have LED Stop/Tail lamps.I'm also wired to power my home made Heated inner gloves and also have a front LED Blue fog lamp.I have no charging or electrical problems but all connectors on the bikes and ground points have been serviced and I have fitted some Higher CCA batteries(190 amp) but my old stock ones were fine and I keep one as a spare charged up just in case.





Many people get these bikes that are well over 25 years old and will religiously change their oil and set tappets etc but neglect to go through all the electrics cleaning contacts etc which are just as important.



Note:My,"Bitsa" CX made out of parts was a bad starter and charger when first put on the road some years ago.At first I thought the Stator was bad until I felt the main fuse/holder that had not been replaced and it was hot.All charging and starting problems on that bike were cured by renewing the fuse holder and servicing the Starter motor and cleaning all electrical contacts and is still functioning perfectly now I've put the bike back on the road after an 18 month lay-off.





HTH

 

[Reg in Bristol]

BTW

Wemoto etc in the UK are usually selling the Electrex stators

yes, Electrex, the ones of somewhat dubious repute.

I know folk who have used em for ages and others who wont touch em

with a barge pole



I've seen em go for as low as £35 on Ebay

they are cheap

they may last for ages

You pays yer money and all that

 

[Shep]

BTW

Wemoto etc in the UK are usually selling the Electrex stators

yes, Electrex, the ones of somewhat dubious repute.

I know folk who have used em for ages and others who wont touch em

with a barge pole



I've seen em go for as low as £35 on Ebay

they are cheap

they may last for ages

You pays yer money and all that

IIRC Reg even,"West Country Windings" who had a good rep also got some stick in some posts as their quality control went down.Stators to me seem to be a bit of a,"Craps shoot".I've done well with cheap 2nd hand ones off Ebay so maybe I'm just lucky

 

[Reg in Bristol]

Same here Shep

I never had CDI stator issues with KAE and

still using the TI stator that came with this engine

And have a well tested SH spare ready in case I do



In fact I have a CDI type which I put a good high speed coil on

somewhere too......



Re westcountry windings

Once of Plymouth, the company and name went east

while the personnel(talent?) stayed west

and their reputation took a nose dive after that

 

[Shep]

Same here Shep

I never had CDI stator issues with KAE and

still using the TI stator that came with this engine

And have a well tested SH spare ready in case I do



In fact I have a CDI type which I put a good high speed coil on

somewhere too......



Re westcountry windings

Once of Plymouth, the company and name went east

while the personnel(talent?) stayed west

and their reputation took a nose dive after that

I'm a scruffy git on many things but I'm a stickler for good electrical connections and cooling system and oil.I truly believe these are a major factor in prolonging the lives of the stators.It has been posted many times that the CX650s go through stators faster and I believe it's due to them running hotter for longer when they shouldn't be.If ever I owned one it would get one of my 75 Deg C temp sensors fitted to the rad straight away and the Honda one bypassed.



PS

I have 9 spare if you ever need one.



PPS

7v reg still working great.Damn that 3mm LED<grin> 5mm was the trick

 

[cxer4]

Shep, good to see someone else from God's own county here.

I tried a 75C 'stat but found it was 'on' far too much of the time. 85 was better.How's yours?

Then I found you are supposed to fit it to the bottom of the rad, not the top as I had.

Made a nice job of soldering a copper mounting plate on the header too, even if I do say so myself.

Got a 650 rad now. It doesn't seem to have any more finning but does have the nice thermoswitch that can take fan current without using a relay.

 

[Shep]

Shep, good to see someone else from God's own county here.

I tried a 75C 'stat but found it was 'on' far too much of the time. 85 was better.How's yours?

Then I found you are supposed to fit it to the bottom of the rad, not the top as I had.

Made a nice job of soldering a copper mounting plate on the header too, even if I do say so myself.

Got a 650 rad now. It doesn't seem to have any more finning but does have the nice thermoswitch that can take fan current without using a relay.

My 75 Deg C ones mounted on the top of the rad as in my links work perfectly but I used thermal paste which I forgot to put in my original post(Amended).They cut the fans in just before the temp gauge reads in the middle and drive the temps down just below the nominal mark and then cut-off.If I fill the rad up to too much the fan does stay on longer so I fill to just about say half an inch above the cores.



All my engines are re-built from the crank up so were internally cleaned/power washer/vapour blasted and compressed air cleaned prior to re-build and the rads have been soaked in my sink overnight using a high concentration of Citrus Acid crystals/water boiled in my kettle(cleans kettle as well) then flushed under the tap and then garden hose flushed forwards and back as well and then satin black BBQ painted so /I know my cooling systems are 100%.

On the warmest days here and even under high speed sustained conditions the temp gauge rarely reads much above the nominal mark on both my machines and of course even stopped in traffic they are cooled to nominal.



When testing my system I could have left the engine/s idling for as log as I liked and the bikes can never overheat so long as no faults appeared like a failed water pump/water hose.



Both my engines run at 85 Deg C under normal air-cooling.



I suspect the 650s temp sensor is incorrect and brings the fans in too late leading to increased running temps that may cause premature engine component wear.

 

[bg2]

Thanks for the info CXer. I have 2 dead stators I am going to rewind. I'll try 2 less wraps on one. I was thinking of switching to led lights. What are your thoughts to the number of less wraps running LEDs? 4 maybe 5?

It seems clear that heat is an issue with our stators. I recently had my motor out and made a modification to the exhaust adding a heat shield made from 24 gauge sheet metal, tack welded at 6 points. I'm sure the temperature is lower but, to what degree/degrees I'm unsure.

Thanks for the forum

 

[DaveF]

...Here is the RMStator on Ebay for $120.00



Dave, Do you have any experience with these?...

No, I've not used a stator from RMStator. I've heard some good things about them on the forum, though. If I hear some more positives and no negatives I'll probably add them as a source in the stator writeup.

 

[Sidecar Bob]

I assume that what your ammeter is reading is charge to the battery, not alternator output. The alternator actually runs flat-out at all times due to the nature of the regulator. What you are seeing is the 'excess' current available to recharge the battery after using the starter & at tick-over speeds. As I suspected, it does not take long for this charging current to reach zero. If the alternator was undersized, this charge time would be significant.

The ammeter is connected in series with the main fuse so that it measures the current into and out of the battery.



There has been much discussion on this and other forums over the years about the wasted alternator output. It was done that way because it was cheaper and the Japanese didn't invent regulating the voltage that way, but at least they made them last longer a lot than the Lucas (the P.O.D.) ever could.



I am waiting for some whiz kid to come along and design a regulator that does not dump the excess to ground. Maybe something based on a three terminal regulator?

As you also point out, you have extra loads & I guess sometimes you have the machine ticking-over for lengthly periods as you have time to observe the battery voltage falling.

When I first had my GL500 with the original stator & battery I could run at typical speeds in the 80-100 Km/h range all day with loads approximating the original setup with the voltmeter reading a bit over 14V, but when I switched on the handlebar heaters (3A) plugged in the electrical anti-fog helmet shield (1.5A) and turned on the 55W sidecar headlight the voltage would drop below 13V. If I ran like that all the time (the coldest, darkest part of the winter) within a week or so the battery would start to have trouble starting the engine. In those days I typically charged the battery every week in Jan & Feb and at least once per month the rest of the winter.



When I changed to the lawn tractor battery the frequency of charging became lower and when I put in a GL1000 stator it became even less, but I still had to keep an eye on things.



I never ran the 650 with a bike battery in the winter, but with the lawn tractor battery and the original stator it needed charging about as often as the 500 with its original stator and a similar battery and changing to a GL1100 stator yielded similar improvement. Last year I finished converting the 650 to HID headlights and LEDs for all other lights so I anticipate needing to charge it even less often (I was unable to find out this year because I was recovering from tendon transfer surgery in my thumb and unable to drive (or go to work) from mid January to mid April).

My own use is very light compared to yours as we don't have any significant trafic on the 'B' roads (that's one step up from goat tracks) we normally use on ride-outs. We don't often stop for more than a few seconds at junctions & the motor is normally running at 3000+ rpm. Most of us here are not brave enough to go out when it's dark. I would suggest that you & I are at the extreme ends of the current demand spectrum.

Not as much as you might think. My bikes are primarily used for commuting, the GW for summer and the 650 for winter, both pulling sidecars. Unless it has rained I usually take the (dirt & gravel) concession roads and in my 20-25 minute drive to work I sometimes see as few as 5 other vehicles on the road.