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2,487 Posts
Interesting read on CDI systems
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8,355 Posts
It's a good article.I've had it bookmarked for over two years.Still nothing come of it though
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Here's another one,
http://www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/bkns125a.htm
Here's another one,
http://www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/bkns125a.htm
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3,847 Posts
Ditto sheps 'they've been about for a while' comment
One snag I see is they still rely on that damn stator
which as we know is the Achilles heel of the system
so an Ignitech type affair (DC CDI) is the way to go IMO.
IIRC Shep was looking into cheaper alternatives to the Ignitech
and had I any CDI bikes, thats what I'd be doing too.
I know Rayman in Australia was developing his own version some time ago
but havent been keeping up with it.
One snag I see is they still rely on that damn stator
which as we know is the Achilles heel of the system
so an Ignitech type affair (DC CDI) is the way to go IMO.
IIRC Shep was looking into cheaper alternatives to the Ignitech
and had I any CDI bikes, thats what I'd be doing too.
I know Rayman in Australia was developing his own version some time ago
but havent been keeping up with it.
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257 Posts
How did this INGITECH thing come into play anyway? I lurked on the old site for years waiting for CDI boxes to come out for these cycles. I was tearing my hair out wondering why STATORS were still being made for these but NOT CDIs when so many needed CDIs to run. When I found that some were finally available through IGNITECH I joined the site to get in on it. I am glad that I did too, because I was mere days away from selling my cycle which I saw as a sinking ship that would one day fail me (again) when the replacement CDI failed. Apparenty original CDIs are still in great demand because Ebay still sells them for $100 up. When my IGNITECH arrives I will likely sell my original CDI on Ebay to recoup my cash. No need to kep it any longer that I can see.
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3,847 Posts
As I recall
Due to their not being available new
(or if they were, they were scarce and VERY expensive)
There were a few discussions and investigations into alternative CDI boxes
Both that and repairing them.
Charles father Dick god bless him made a very good schematic of the thing
which was a great reference for repair or developing a similar DIY version.
Dick was developing a box just as the Ignitech came to peoples notice.
A DC CDI isnt and wasnt a new concept, but it seemed to be the first one available that could easily be configured for the CX.
It could also be used on any 2 cylinder CDI bike.
It then became apparent that despite best efforts, the CDI original or new, would
still rely on the often troublesome stator and NLA advance coils and that a DC powered CDI
if reliable, could be a worthwhile upgrade.
Not sure who first tried one over your side of the pond, but the UK club bought one and
Trev and I fitted it to his bike in December 2008
The bike was struggling due to failing stator and advance coils and the Ignitech gave it
a new lease of life.
Its still working well now which one would hope bodes well for the long term reliability
of the thing.
Shortly after and following discussions we had I sent some pulsers to Wedge,
a guy in Eastern England and he fitted these, an Ignitech and a G8 stator to his bike
This raised the output from 170W to a nominal 250W and it all worked well AFAIK.
nowadays, many have them and despite a few that were shipped with wiring errors
( obviously not tested on an actual CX before dispatch)
the overall reception seems to be very positive.
An alternbative AC CDI may still be worth looking into for those who want to use the
original stator and advance coils, but personally I think an alternative DC CDI
would be time better spent.
Due to their not being available new
(or if they were, they were scarce and VERY expensive)
There were a few discussions and investigations into alternative CDI boxes
Both that and repairing them.
Charles father Dick god bless him made a very good schematic of the thing
which was a great reference for repair or developing a similar DIY version.
Dick was developing a box just as the Ignitech came to peoples notice.
A DC CDI isnt and wasnt a new concept, but it seemed to be the first one available that could easily be configured for the CX.
It could also be used on any 2 cylinder CDI bike.
It then became apparent that despite best efforts, the CDI original or new, would
still rely on the often troublesome stator and NLA advance coils and that a DC powered CDI
if reliable, could be a worthwhile upgrade.
Not sure who first tried one over your side of the pond, but the UK club bought one and
Trev and I fitted it to his bike in December 2008
The bike was struggling due to failing stator and advance coils and the Ignitech gave it
a new lease of life.
Its still working well now which one would hope bodes well for the long term reliability
of the thing.
Shortly after and following discussions we had I sent some pulsers to Wedge,
a guy in Eastern England and he fitted these, an Ignitech and a G8 stator to his bike
This raised the output from 170W to a nominal 250W and it all worked well AFAIK.
nowadays, many have them and despite a few that were shipped with wiring errors
( obviously not tested on an actual CX before dispatch)
the overall reception seems to be very positive.
An alternbative AC CDI may still be worth looking into for those who want to use the
original stator and advance coils, but personally I think an alternative DC CDI
would be time better spent.
it worked but not so good.
but the bike started and kept running at 1500rpm.
if someone wants to discuss about how i redesigned the CDI i'd be glad.
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117 Posts
There is a relatively new member to the forum that I think would like to dabble with this project. He specializes in electronics.
Slimvulcanrider is his forum name. I'd like to see this project catch some wind and get off the ground.
I'll contact him and let him know about this thread.
Slimvulcanrider is his forum name. I'd like to see this project catch some wind and get off the ground.
I'll contact him and let him know about this thread.
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31 Posts
Thanks for the introduction Joel... I do like to dabble in electronics, but this one looks kind of big... after reading your email to me I was thinking a little more about it.. I think instead of reinventing the wheel, I could adapt the wheel of another bike to work fr ours so to speak. What if a guy were to adapt a CDI unit from a different 2 Cylinder bike to work on the CX?
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3,005 Posts
As has been pointed out by Reg and a few others in similar threads, making new OEM style CDI's was an option to be followed when there was no alternative to 30+ year old used CDI's.
Now that units like the Ignitech are on the market, which eliminate the need for a "split" stator, and almost pays for itself in the savings from being able to run without those windings or the advance pulsor, both of which are NLA new, and a relative PITA to change when defective, what's the point or re-inventing the wheel?
Kind of like keeping 6 volt electrical system or cable brakes on the vehicle when converting to 12volts and hydraulics is easier and cheaper.
Now that units like the Ignitech are on the market, which eliminate the need for a "split" stator, and almost pays for itself in the savings from being able to run without those windings or the advance pulsor, both of which are NLA new, and a relative PITA to change when defective, what's the point or re-inventing the wheel?
Kind of like keeping 6 volt electrical system or cable brakes on the vehicle when converting to 12volts and hydraulics is easier and cheaper.
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13,451 Posts
Several have went down this road and spent way to much time and money for almost zero reward.
My friend Tom said it was starting to look really easy and then a few other factors like timing completely screwed with the figures.
At this point $160 is cheap for a good ignitech unit made new. And it saves me from replacing the stator till the charging circuit dies.
My friend Tom said it was starting to look really easy and then a few other factors like timing completely screwed with the figures.
At this point $160 is cheap for a good ignitech unit made new. And it saves me from replacing the stator till the charging circuit dies.
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2,487 Posts
If I just had the $500 to spare for getting the initial run of 100 blank PC boards I'd have no problem building them as people needed them EXCEPT - I don't think anyone ever found a source for the exact plugs - and who wants to sell (much less having to splice in) a new unit?
I might run some numbers again regarding total costs and present it to the community, if I could get enugh people to agree that they'd buy one at a specific price point knowing darn well they'd have to splice it in I'd somehow borrow the money and go with it.
PC layout is easy, I'd have them designed and in my hands within a week. Parts are pretty much overnight to me. Soldering time, QC and installing them in properly sealed enclosures would probably end up as about two hours apiece but my time is definitely worth something when I include all the paperwork, accounting, packing and shipping. If I recall, all inclusive, I'd have to get somewhere around $70 - $75 per unit and all you'd be getting would be an almost exact replica of the original - with far more reliable components though.
SO - cosidering worst case of about half of those that promised they'd order one as dropping out of the deal I'd need to "pre-sell" at least 20 of them, then if only those 10 came through I'd at least be able to repay the loan to get the PC boards made.
Stupid oddball connectors, if there was a definite source for them this would be a piece of cake and you could even list them on eBay, something one might hesitate to do if you had to sell them as slice in only replacements.
I might run some numbers again regarding total costs and present it to the community, if I could get enugh people to agree that they'd buy one at a specific price point knowing darn well they'd have to splice it in I'd somehow borrow the money and go with it.
PC layout is easy, I'd have them designed and in my hands within a week. Parts are pretty much overnight to me. Soldering time, QC and installing them in properly sealed enclosures would probably end up as about two hours apiece but my time is definitely worth something when I include all the paperwork, accounting, packing and shipping. If I recall, all inclusive, I'd have to get somewhere around $70 - $75 per unit and all you'd be getting would be an almost exact replica of the original - with far more reliable components though.
SO - cosidering worst case of about half of those that promised they'd order one as dropping out of the deal I'd need to "pre-sell" at least 20 of them, then if only those 10 came through I'd at least be able to repay the loan to get the PC boards made.
Stupid oddball connectors, if there was a definite source for them this would be a piece of cake and you could even list them on eBay, something one might hesitate to do if you had to sell them as slice in only replacements.
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85 Posts
Let me offer some points...
So we are talking about what, 3 years of bikes? (Not sure what year they switched from CDI). Who would the customer base be at this point, given that the Ignitech is available? The way I see it, every group buy that Cobram does eats away at any potential customer base you might have.
Again, there are also the issues with Stator failure, and the CDI relies on that. And you also can't get new OEM coils either. The sensible alternative is the Ignitech from a total $'s perspective and future maintainability aspect (cheaper stator, aftermarket coils).
So, the way I see it, the only reason for a new CDI is for those wanting to restore a bike to original condition.
Maybe a better option is refurbishment of existing CDI units. Replace all the parts onto the existing PWB (reusing/refurbing the wiring and OEM connector), test, re-pot them, and sell them as refurbs. Include a refundable core-charge to help ensure a supply of dead ones to refurb for future orders.
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154 Posts
Joel has already mentioned that I have a source of OEM type Japanese connectors I source directly from Japan. Give me a quick idea as to what connectors you require and I will show you pics of what I have
on the holland cx site there also is a reworked cdi.
http://www.hondacx500.nl/bestanden/Tunen_CDI.pdf
http://www.hondacx500.nl/bestanden/Tunen_CDI.pdf
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2,487 Posts
They're virtually impossible to get apart, they're potted in some sort of early variation of epoxy glue.
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13,451 Posts
I've tried several chemicals and it's a no go. I chipped away a lot of it with picks and screwdrivers. Then I took the larger pieces and put them in a variety of jars with chemicals and nothing dissolved it.
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2,487 Posts
Yea, since we've got a schematic, parts list and I think even a PC board trace layout you could just build one.
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