[stern-69]

Well, I have to join the group on this one as well. I have had my engine out twice (now doing a triple bypass plus a bit more). I have done rings in many engines, but I have not even attempted it on the CX engine mainly for the reason of very limited availability of parts you may need. Rings you may find, pistons and bearings probabaly not, and if you do they will probabaly run you more than the whole bike. Unlike other bikes (see, i didnt say Harley) these bottom ends are really rugged and if maintained last a hell of a long time. I WOULD (and did) lap the valves as its very easy and makes a huge difference, but leave the pistons and cylinders alone (and resist the temptation of removing that little ring that gets formed at the top of the cylinder walls lol).



If you are concerned about the rings, make sure the valves are seated properly (after lapping would be best) and run a compression test on each cylinder and compare the two values (they should be close to the same +/- 15psi max). Just make sure you have a bit of oil still on the cylinder walls when you reinstall the heads. (I prefer to put oil in even if I have to drain it again just to play safe).



If you KNOW the valves are seated well and the gaps are OK, the compression test will tell you right away if you should even consider messing with the pistons.

 

[stern-69]

You will get about of cup of coolant out of the cylinder drain plugs, as it lets out the coolant stuck in the head passages that cant drain by gravity to the bottom coolant hose, so its normal. I would recommend a flush before finishing up and adding coolant.



Take some pics and post them of the heads and cylinders, and people here can tell you what they think. As for valve guides, I would check them (replace them only if they are bad) and lap the valves as it makes a huge difference. I picked up a set of valve oil seals when I did my heads off Ebay, and they were not that expensive for a set of 8. chances are when you check the valve guides they may be ok, the manual gives you the slack and wiggle values.

 

[stern-69]

I found the head bolts on both my heads VERY tight. I used a 1/2 socket wrench with a 6 point "impact type socket". I then put a 6" length of 1 1/2" black pipe on the rachet handle (what I call my "Super Johnson") and gave it a push .... they came out fine after the initial "SNAP" (probabaly lock-tighted in).



Getting the heads OFF is the hard part, they will be stuck good PLUS there are two large locating dowls (used for coolant or oil, cant remember which) that mean it has to come STRAIGHT off. I ended up having to use a hammer to "tap" in an "olfa" knife blade at the gasket point. After getting about 1/2 way around it made the ripping "hisssssss" noise as the gasket finnaly let go a bit, then they could be pulled off with a bit of wiggling.

 

[stern-69]

Well, I would stay away from a flat blade screwdriver as they WILL mar the mating surfaces, but found if you tap a knife blade in (STRAIGHT) the gasket area, the actual "sharp edge" of the blade is at too much of an acute angle to even touch the mating surfaces, plus the blade (use a big wide blade like the big snap off ones that come in big utility knifes) having a much bigger surface area (that a screwdriver blade) will supply a large amount of leverage against the two surfaces while keeping the force per square inch low.



I tap the blade in until its almost through the gasket area, remove it and move it to the next spot beside the one I just did. Once you have gone about 1/2 way you will find on one "tap in" that the surfaces start to seperate, and then a rubber mallet and some wiggling will get it seperateded lickety split. Once I have done both heads I checked the surfaces, and there wasnt a single mark. You will probabaly leave more of a mark trying to remove the gasket material from both surfaces with a scraper. Just make sure the blade is "in" the gasket area and not against eather piece and it will go well with actually little effort

 

[stern-69]

Well glad they came off for you, and as for the "screwdriver hump" I too have done that, and as long as it doesnt span the entire width of the gasket area you should be ok just smoothing it down. The "cheesegrater" gasket you found is the "normal" head gasket, as all head gaskets I have ever worked with have metal in them, if only a metal disk around the cylinder opening. I myself would NEVER use a gasket without metal in it on a head as normal gasket material will not be able to survive with the pressures involved. You will find when you put new gaskets in the WILL have metal in them, as that is the part that actually "seals" the head joint (act as giant crush washers).



You will probabaly have a "carbon ring" on the inside of the cylinder right at the top, best to leave it alone. Every shop manual I have ever read has stated to "DO NOT REMOVE" this, as it apparently helps with head sealing and combustion (not really sure why, as if you hone the cyclinder its the first thing to go, as it is if you remove a piston). You can remove major carbon chunks from the top of the piston if there is any, but unless its large chunks (carbon film buildup) it wont hurt anything. As for the heads, you can clean them up with a wire brush (or like i do, with a wire wheel in a drill or drillpress). I would recommend getting new valve seals (usually come with a complete gasket set, or you can buy them seperatly, you need 8) and lapping the valves. It sounds complicated but is actually fairly simple. The big trick is removing the valves, for which I would recommend you buy a valve spring compressor (small one, not the big ones for cars as they wont fit). You can do it without, but I wouldnt recommend it as its a pain to get them back with a compressor, almost impossible without. For lapping you just need a lapping tool (wooden dowel with a suction cup at each end, abot $2.00 at an auto store) and some lapping compound (can use pollishing pummice if in a bind, its basically fine sand in a paste form, most auto places sell it). Then you just put the compound on the valve seat in the head, drop the valve in place as spin it like your making fire lol. Once you see the "lapping haze" on the valve seat go all the way around, your done.



NOTE ***** You MUST make sure you mark EACH VALVE, ITS SPRING AND CAPTURE BITS AS A SET. Do not mix up any of the parts as they MUST stay as a set AND>>> AND >>>>AND go back in the EXACT HEAD AND LOCATION. I know some may say "as long as the exhaust valve goes in and exhaust spot its OK" ..... ITS NOT. Each valve MUST go back where it came from or you WILL end up with oil leaks and probabaly rapid wear of the valve guides (something you REALLY dont want to change)



OK, now not meaning to scare you, but its better to get a little freaked out BEFORE you remove them then after when you cant remember what went where. I marked the heads (L&R) and numbered the valve spots on the head (1EL, 2EL, 1IL, 2IL and similar for right) and kept each valve and its "bits" in a seperate plastic bag with the same markings. Also (after cleaning the valves) marked the valve faces.



What you will find (I did) is that with the valves lapped and new valve oil seals in place, the engine runs a lot smoother and "peppier" when set up. If you need any help with the process, we are all here to help. When its all said and done you will find the hardest part is keeping all the bits together and marked for the right spots

 

[stern-69]

The kit you show seems to have all important ones you may need, depending on what you are actually taking apart. It has the head gaskets and valve stem seals (most important ones) but lacks the front, rear gaskets, as well at the ones for the timing unit (advancer thing lol). I know you can pick up back and front gaskets seperatly (back FOR SURE must be a proper gasket while some of the others can be made).



The heads and cylinders actually look really good. I would check to see how much "didnt cost much" equates to actual dollars lol It is not a really hard job, lapping is VERY easy, with the hardest part being "putting the springs back on". Cost wise, you will save doing it yourself, about $2.00 for the lapping tool, $2.00 for the lapping compound (unless you know a mechanic that can give you a "dolop") and amybe about $10-$25.00 for the valve spring compressor. (mine cost $15.00). Lapping is easy, and doesnt look like your valves will need much. you simply spin the valve back and forth and check the "haze" left on the valve seat and valve face. when the entire "seating" area is "hazed" ( basically like frosted glas as opposed to shinny metal) you are done.



This also allows you to check the valve stem clearance (the amount of sideways wiggle the valve has in its guide). If it is within spec your good to go, if they are way to loose it means new valve guide which are a pain (they are press fit sleeves). With the valves lapped and new valve stem seals yur heads will be good for a lont time.



Just remember, EACH valve MUST stay with its HEAD/HOLE as well as all its bits (keepers and springs). This is because each valve seat will be a little different and the wear on each guide/stem will also be different. Mixing them up can prevent valves from seating properly, burnig oil due to guide slop, and very poor performance. Best money you will spend doing this is 8 zip lock bags and a sharpie marker.

 

[stern-69]

Well, if you can get a shop to lap them for $40.00 I would jump at it. I have a mechanic who is a good friend, and they normally charge about $200-$300 (whihc I could get for 1/2 price, but im cheap too lol).



Dont get me wrong, sometimes it better to have a professional do things (like grinding a crank or milling a head surface) but sometime you can do an even better job yourself. The main reason is YOU CARE about your bike, to them its just a valve job. You also have total control over the work doing it yourself, not if you take it in (and YES, I have watched mechanics do valve.... pull them.... thow everything into one box.... clean them and put it back together. When I asked about "matching them" the response was "they are all the same, and if it does cause a problem it wont show for thousands of miles". No, never took anything there, was just in their doing sprinkler pipe work).



As for the "rusty void", that is the water jacket which is usually full of coolant. You can usually pull most of the crap out or leave it and let a good flush clean it out. I myself clean the crud out the best I can, but prep it first. I will run a heat gun over it until everything in there is completely dried out, then using a welding rod break the big crap loose WHILE holding a good shop vac up to it. That way anything that breaks loose gets sucked up and not dropped in. You may want to use the shop vac first before heating for two reasons. first it gets already loose stuff out, and second there is a good chance the vac will pull some pooled coolant up and out (startled me the first time I did it, then have to dry it again).

 

[stern-69]

Yep, but you some shops (and as I said I would never take anything to this place, most were kneckle dragger with an IQ of 2 over the min to be able to breath) see a guy with heads in his hand and they figure "I can soak him" I also agree with bandit, I find it quite nice to do them myself, leaves you with a real "I accomplised something that wasnt just cleaning" feeling