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Well here we go again, The federal government, EPA, has , - in its INFINITE WISDOM, decreed that ethanol based gas can now have 15%. ethanol.



What [email protected]#$%$##!!!.... Milage is LESS., therefore real cost (per miles) is MORE.



Our government. due to million dollars lobbyists, is corrupt, and unconscienable.



VOTE the antiencumbent ticket, and your conscience. Sam
 

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Most gas stations only have two underground tanks and if you read the decision it was only approved for recent year and E85 vehicles. How they're going to handle the situation is beyond me.
 

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I agree 100% why dilute gasoline with anything less powerful? Politics of corn me thinks? Now don't get me going. Geez that's like putting coke in your Bourbon.

Cheers, 50gary
 

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The government seems to think that everyone can afford to buy or lease a new car every year or two and the rest of us are out of luck.
 

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Just so you people don't feel alone I am here to tell you that we have lunatic politicians in Canada too. It doesn't seem to matter which political party you check out because the nutters are legion in every political party. I have heard that it is still possible to buy pure gasoline at some stations in Alberta but not where I live. I'll be checking out some of the smaller airports to see if I can buy avgas. I used to buy it by the jerry can full at the local airport where I previously lived in British Columbia.
 

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It is clear that the corn and bio-fuel lobbies have been able to hold sway on this issue. I have heard arguments stating that it takes more fossil fuel to produce the same amount of corn based ethanol. Even if the net sum energy savings are neutral or even a bit positive, the net effect on older bikes and cars is not positive in any way. There are a good number of people who, like us, have equipment that was designed before 'gasahol' was a consideration. I have written my congressman and both senators with predictable results - nothing. The whole argument is a frustration.
 

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Not that it plays into the argument here about the effect on our machines, but I hear too that Nascar is moving to all E15 next season.
 

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I'd wager the government put some pressure on Nascar to go to the E15 fuel thereby using Nascar as a marketing tool to sell the "green" way of life to the great unwashed. I shouldn't have to say it but that unwashed comment is meant sarcastically towards the govt.

Cheers, 50gary
 

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If its available to you , find your nearby fuel co-op.

I drive about 10 miles out of the way, but its 100% gas and the same price (or a dime more) as the mega stations.

I fill up a gas can for my bike when i fill up my truck so i don't have to go out of the way twice.



For those in the mid-atlantic, SouthernStates has dozens of stations.



As for those of you who are stuck with 15% grain in your tank...life sucks and it ain't changing any time soon.
 

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In Washington, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) waived a limitation on selling fuel that is more than 10 percent ethanol for model year 2007 and newer cars and light trucks. The waiver applies to fuel that contains up to 15 percent ethanol – known as E15 – and only to model year 2007 and newer cars and light trucks.



They will later make a decision regarding cars made between 2001 - 2006 after they see how this goes over.



As I've said - most gas stations only have TWO underground tanks. They fill one with Premium, the other with Regular and it's blended 50/50 at the pump to produce the mid-grade.



To meet the requirements gas stations will either need to add another underground tank & pump or modify their existing pumps such that they can dispense different blends. Unless the price difference is extremely attractive guess what people are going to choose?



This really means nothing except that the boating and motorsports industry is going to get even hotter about it than they already are. E10 has been proven to cause more warranty repairs than when regular gasoline was all you could buy, and people's safety is compromised if a boat becomes stranded due to older E10 in the tank becoming saturated with the water it attracts.



My 1996 car does not like E10 - it often causes the SES light to go off due to sensing a lean condition which is definitely hard on the engine, accelerating wear due to the increased combustion temperature. I intend on keeping this rather rare and unusual car for some time so it may come down to me applying for an exemption to buy AVGAS - that or if I eventually get forced to losing Premium fuel or having to run E15 I'm going to figure out a way to deduct the full cost of a new comparable car that I can live with out of my taxes or better yet require that they purchase me one.
 

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Interesting info from the EPA site: EPA E15 site



What Vehicles and Engines May Not Use E15?

All motorcycles.

All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses, transit buses, and delivery trucks.

All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles.

All engines in off-road equipment, such as lawnmowers and chain saws.

All 2006 model-year and older cars.



Looks like we're safe...for now.
 

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sam ,there is an article in the latest australian road rider bike mag on this exact subject.It make very interesting reading,now if I can scan it can someone post it onto the site?
 

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Ahhhheeemmm! Excuse me as I clear my throat for a speech.



Azzzzz a grain farmer in an agricultural state. The news coverage here is to vote out incumbants in Congress BECAUSE the EPA has delayed a decision on E-15 for almost a year and that the green light wasn't given for use in all vehicles. In fact the blowhards are talking overtime because they were pushing for an increase to E-30. E-15 is considered as a political failure.



When gasahol was introduced in the early 1980's it was considered a fad, and that the ethanol used for the 10% formulation was only going to displace supply to the Jim Beam drinkers. Gasahol was touted as a great winter fuel for the northern climate and it always was recognized that it usually delivered a poorer mpg than straight gasoline. Mostly found only @ farmer owned cooperatives that grew larger then expanded to convienience stores in the midwest. Soon other regions adopted the 10% blend as a green fuel to help eliminate toxic gasoline additives. Is it for use in all vehicles--NO! I buy bulk fuels and I cannot store ethanol without problems. My old trucks gasoline tractors cannot use ethanol. I don't complain about it, I just pay the extra dimes for straight gasoline.



When I fuel up @ the gas pumps in town, I use ethanol in my personal road vehicles. Only occasionally in the motorcycles. I own an E-85 vehicle, and yes I can notice a decrease in milage. But with the spread in cost from straight unleaded to E-85, it is a wash as to cost per mile. I have towed a 23 ft travel trailer burning E-85 and the vehicle performed as well as if I had filled with unleaded.



The absolute pro consideration of ethanol is that is provides an essential market for a renewable commodity grown in the USA. Governments control the import/export of grains around the world. When grain prices fall, governments (including the US) must prop up the ag community with subsidies to keep farms producing. With the expansion of ethanol and biodiesel products, farmers no longer have to rely on the government to pay up for artificially keeping food prices down. And foreign conglomerates and governments cannot choke the supply of ethanol.



Now the future. South America runs on ethanol produced from sugar cane waste. USA plants are working on a cellulose (like grass clippings) based ethanol production. Again renewable resource. The ag sector can again provide the raw material that doesn't have to be imported. Like the commercials say on TV, "No US Troops died to bring Ethanol to the pumps!" "No miles of coastline were fouled to produce a single gallon of pure Ethanol!"



We may not like it as it is a change. But as long as unleaded or premium gasoline is offered at the pump (and I expect it to be as long as we have internal combustion engines operating) we really don't need to wrapped around the axle and trying to make villians out of people trying to sort out the mess we ended up with. The hardest part of politics is that you can't cure one problem without creating another. Complaints that the Ethanol blends are less expensive than unleaded is like complaining that your favorite cheese isn't always on sale. No one is forcing the purchase of Ethanol on anyone. Our state government tried to mandate the use of ethanol or biodiesel blends by all state, county and school vehicles. After a couple months they had to recind the order as pure folly.
 

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Ahhhheeemmm! Excuse me as I clear my throat for a speech.



Azzzzz a grain farmer in an agricultural state. The news coverage here is to vote out incumbants in Congress BECAUSE the EPA has delayed a decision on E-15 for almost a year and that the green light wasn't given for use in all vehicles. In fact the blowhards are talking overtime because they were pushing for an increase to E-30. E-15 is considered as a political failure.



When gasahol was introduced in the early 1980's it was considered a fad, and that the ethanol used for the 10% formulation was only going to displace supply to the Jim Beam drinkers. Gasahol was touted as a great winter fuel for the northern climate and it always was recognized that it usually delivered a poorer mpg than straight gasoline. Mostly found only @ farmer owned cooperatives that grew larger then expanded to convienience stores in the midwest. Soon other regions adopted the 10% blend as a green fuel to help eliminate toxic gasoline additives. Is it for use in all vehicles--NO! I buy bulk fuels and I cannot store ethanol without problems. My old trucks gasoline tractors cannot use ethanol. I don't complain about it, I just pay the extra dimes for straight gasoline.



When I fuel up @ the gas pumps in town, I use ethanol in my personal road vehicles. Only occasionally in the motorcycles. I own an E-85 vehicle, and yes I can notice a decrease in milage. But with the spread in cost from straight unleaded to E-85, it is a wash as to cost per mile. I have towed a 23 ft travel trailer burning E-85 and the vehicle performed as well as if I had filled with unleaded.



The absolute pro consideration of ethanol is that is provides an essential market for a renewable commodity grown in the USA. Governments control the import/export of grains around the world. When grain prices fall, governments (including the US) must prop up the ag community with subsidies to keep farms producing. With the expansion of ethanol and biodiesel products, farmers no longer have to rely on the government to pay up for artificially keeping food prices down. And foreign conglomerates and governments cannot choke the supply of ethanol.



Now the future. South America runs on ethanol produced from sugar cane waste. USA plants are working on a cellulose (like grass clippings) based ethanol production. Again renewable resource. The ag sector can again provide the raw material that doesn't have to be imported. Like the commercials say on TV, "No US Troops died to bring Ethanol to the pumps!" "No miles of coastline were fouled to produce a single gallon of pure Ethanol!"



We may not like it as it is a change. But as long as unleaded or premium gasoline is offered at the pump (and I expect it to be as long as we have internal combustion engines operating) we really don't need to wrapped around the axle and trying to make villians out of people trying to sort out the mess we ended up with. The hardest part of politics is that you can't cure one problem without creating another. Complaints that the Ethanol blends are less expensive than unleaded is like complaining that your favorite cheese isn't always on sale.


Sounds like you know a bit about what you're talking about






No one is forcing the purchase of Ethanol on anyone.


Except that it's a pain in the rear to find non-E10 anywhere near a city.




Anyway being that there are lots of farms around here, I'm gonna go a few miles out of my way and see if I can't find a small station with non-E10 gas. Seems like every station I've been to has the old "This gas is oxygenated" sticker. (which means it contains Ethanol, right?)
 
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