[MattEBeer]

Alright, I guess I want to add to the endless oil conversation. I searched out "second gear" and I found this thread with the slippy clutch references.



I put a synthetic 10w-40(I think thats the weight) in the bike when I first got it, just because I really like the synthetics in everything else I own and only after having read some posts after the fact did I learn its not the best of ideas. I just left it in because I didnt want to waste good oil and I have a tendency to have to learn by my own experience. I have been finding that second gear will be hard to get into(not like I have grinding or anything, it just doesnt want to engage) and on my ride home from work today, it actually slipped out of second mid throttle. Fortunately Im quick to get it back in gear and dont go darting out in front of traffic. My assumption at this point is its the synthetic I have in the motor causing me the issue. Its not often, but if I dont give it a good solid push up into second, it has a tenancy to slip out or not get in at all.



When I got home, after having no more problems, I just sat on the running bike and tried to shift into second while standing still, it absolutely wouldnt go with the clutch pulled back. Dont know if that helps or hurts my question.



Any feedback?

 

[MattEBeer]

Well, Im so very sorry I cant remember every single weight of oil I have in every single motor I own, It must really make you feel extra special to denigrate somebody over such a simple thing. I think the WEIGHT of the oil at this point is a secondary issue. The ACTUAL ISSUE is if somebody had a constructive opinion about if the Synthetic oil would be the cause of the second gear engagement problem or is it possibly a transmission/gears problem?. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING OF VALUE to add to that?

-no silly emoticans needed-

If the original poster couldn't even remember the viscosity of the oil he bought, who knows what he put in his engine.



This is way, way past 10,000 words, here's a picture worth at least 1000 words, Rotella T6.

JASO MA means you can use it in a MOTORCYCLE with a WET CLUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MattEBeer]

So, I just walked out to the garage and decided to dig through my collection oils that I have labeled for each motor I own, and lowe and behold, my recollection was correct. I used a 10W-40, full synthetic. I remember now why I had chosen it, because the oil type listed in the owners manual, stated that it needed to meet certain standards, that when I consulted a very close friend who has been wrenching for 50 years and riding for 40 explained that oil technology has advanced considerably since the specs produced in 1980, therefore, in his opinion, If I wanted to give it a shot, use the 10W-40 full synthetic.



I guess my major mistake was not consulting a condescending _________ first?! who seems fully unavailable for constructive advice, my bad.



Is there ANYBODY here with an opinion/experience that might provide me some direction? Do I potentially have a transmission problem or do you think its as simple and as cheap as just putting new oil in? Because this really is a potential safety issue.



-again, no silly emoticons needed-

 

[MattEBeer]

Thnx, Its the best Ive gotten so far.

Its nice to at least know that somebody else has had some difficulty with 2nd also.

Sincere help is always appreciated, which is what I thought this forum was for in the first place.

For what it's worth, I've noticed from time to time some slight difficulty with second gear, although seldom. And I have never used synthetics.

 

[MattEBeer]

You call what you have provided to this point assistance?

Keep it.



-No good ever came from being a condescending jerk-

I'm really inclined to assist you now. Sounded like you were quoting another thread in that post.



No good ever came from an oil thread.

 

[MattEBeer]

Here is a follow-up to my 2nd Gear issue.

I have a buddy I work with who races indoor motocross and is ranked ect. He knows a thing or two about bikes. I consulted him on this too. We went out yesterday and I let him give it a good once over. He rode it around the parking lot and he ran into the same problem. He was really surprised at how long of a lift it was to get from 1st to 2nd relative to his KTM. He pointed out one thing that nobody has gotten to yet, the clutch cable. The clutch cable is adjusted to as tight as it can get and there is still a bit of slack in it, his conclusion is its either old and stretched or its an aftermarket cable and is just a smidge too long.



The new plan of attack.



1) change the oil, Ive already done it. The parts store only had 1 bottle of Rotella T 15w-40, so I had to get a second bottle in Valvoline Motrocycle 10W-40. Im not too worried about the mix, its only going to be in there for a maximum of a week before it gets replaced again with nothing but the Rotella. After I changed the oil I took it out and racked up 20 miles on it, to try and get the Syn to dilute with the regular oil. It seems to work, the problem lessened and I was able to work from 1st to nuetral to 2nd and from 1st to 2nd with more consistency and fewer occurrences of hiccups. This morning was a different story. It was cold and it was slipping. I discussed it with my co-worker when I got in and he thought the thinness and the surface tension of the syn was the issue. The new oil had not found its way fully mixed between the clutch plates yet and the surface tension of the synthetic was causing the plates to not fully separate. We will see. I will easily put another 100 miles on this weekend and hopefully it will work its way out.



2)I already ordered a new OEM clutch cable along with new adjustment nuts ect., it will be installed when I change the oil again in a week, assuming I can get the bugs to continue to work out, otherwise it just may have to get put on if I get too frustrated with the shifting performance. I want to isolate each change so I can get a better mental handle on whats happening.



3)I also ordered the shifter seal (thanks Iheartfatdudes, when I think about it, it makes good sense that it could prevent proper alignment in the case if the seal is sloppy). That may or may not go on with the cable, again to keep this as step by step and isolate each change.



thanks all for the constructive response. I will update when I know more.

 

[MattEBeer]

Update;

I got a new clutch cable in, put it on, still not getting into second easily at all. I never got the miles on that I wanted to, the shifting issue became a safety issue. Fighting to get from first to second just is not safe riding.



Next step;

new oil seal at the shifter.

I also noticed the shifter lever has been mangled at one point and rebent to fit. I will fiddle with it, try and hammer it so it does not contact the starter or the muffler when shifting, although there was never an issue before getting into gear with the lever as it is now.



I have already started to price out all new clutch parts, plates, friction plates, springs, bearing, ect. Can probably get it all for around 150$, was thinking of adding the clutch cover plate lifter piece in the mix too.



Any other suggestions?



Just as a reminder, I recently got this bike, it was running like a top for more than a month and 250 miles and then in the course of two days second gear became an issue while it would slip some with heavy throttle in third.



If its the shifting drum, I think Im screwed, parts appear to be nearly impossible, for sure will be a salvage yard find.

 

[MattEBeer]

Are you suggesting that replacing the clutch parts is not my issue?

I should just get back on it and start trying to play with shifting when I know Im not going to be in traffic situations and just start to learn its temperment?

My problem is it simply does not want to go into second, I get a grind and then maybe 1 time out of five it will engage.

You're 2nd gear problem isn't going to clean up without pulling the engine apart and swapping out the worn part either on the shifter arm or other.



If you want to do your clutch get these and don't waste your money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...sQ5fAccessories



I understand the problem and live with it. If I get on second gear right after the shift at times it kicks out. If I ease into it then the bike doesn't even care.

 

[MattEBeer]

HUZZAH!!!



I got out to the garage and really got to adjusting the new clutch cable, replaced the shifter oil seal and then played with finding a good adjustment position for the shifter lever and now this thing runs through gears like nobodies business!



The throw between gears seems to have gotten shorter, the gap for nuetral had to have gotten 2/3rds shorter, and 100% positive engagement, not a single hick-up. Smooth as silk! The motor seems to be running much smoother too, no more flat spot around 4500RPM.



I took it out once I had gotten it all adjusted and played with it running on its center stand, going through the gears and felt confident I could give it a whirl. It seems to be grabbing hold of gears like it never did before. I think the new cable really helped and the adjustment of the shifter lever. Im not sure about that seal, if it helped, or if it was just the forcing of me to remove the lever and put it back on to do the seal swap. But whatever of the three things I did, four if you include the oil, Im a VERY happy camper!



Thank you LRCXed, BlindStitch, ramprat06 and iheartfatdudes for all your very constructive input. Im so happy I dont have to replace the clutch or anything to do with the shift drum, saved me money and all kinds of heartache.



Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou

 

[MattEBeer]

Well, Ive got news.



I put just under a hundred mile on this weekend and the second gear problem arose again. Without going into great detail of how and why I ended up doing what I did, (ok, I will, I let a buddy ride it who I thought could ride, and he laid it down, fortunately in some sand/dirt, never making that mistake again, my ship, Im the only captain) I got down on bended knee again and checked that shifter lever and it had !moved! positions. I got out the sockets, started twisting that shift lever bolt back out, and SNAP! it shore off.



I believe I may have found the root of my problem.



The bolt was fatigued and stretched out and wasnt really providing the full force it was intended to provide and that shifter lever has seen some abuse. I think the shifter lever had been slipping on the stud. The teeth/grooves didnt look like they were worn but there was a repair weld to the clamp on the lever, so when I get the chance tomorrow night I will extract whats left of the bolt, get the lever off and do a very close and thorough inspection of those teeth. I already have a new lever on order from Slicks in Mason. The guy I talked to said he had a number of them and not a single one had the same bends in them, so it appears they all seem to take a lot of abuse, this just may be a weak link in the transverse design, I will have to ponder those finer points at a later date. (or, just dont lay your bike down on the left side)



Will update once I know more, it may be a while, I will have to see where the bike falls on the priorities list.

 

[MattEBeer]

Shifter Stud at the rear motor/transmission cover - you can see it is bent inward some

Bottom side of the shifter lever lever Im replacing - note the big ugly half penetrated weld

Top side of the shifter lever Im replacing - note the big ugly half penetrated weld and the two pieces of the shorn bolt.

I know I should have mentioned the ugly welds earlier but I didnt think it would be an issue, oh well. I still think its the bolt was compromised more than anything.



This is what Im working with. Im going to just go ahead and install the new shifter lever when I get it tomorrow via UPS and see what results I get. If that does not work, then Im going to have to see if I can get the stud part, thats a be-i-itch though, means a pulled motor and cracking that baby open. That will have to be debated if I even want to attempt it. honestly I think that if I just get a good grip on that stud with a new lever and a grade 8 or 10 bolt, I should be alright. Will just have to try and see how it goes.



Damn, this thread has wandered from its original gear oil title, and I seem to have become inadvertently involved with this forum...........

 

[MattEBeer]

Ok, the shifter on the top, that is what came off, the shifter on the bottom, is what got delivered and looks like what is in the parts diagrams.

the longer one, the one I took off is solid steel

the shorter one, the salvage find, is tubular steel. I gave it a quick test fit at lunch, it appears it will fit.



Any comments?

 

[MattEBeer]

The short one ended up not fitting, wouldnt clear the exhaust correctly to provide positive shifting and landed only 1 inch from the foot peg. Put the old one back on with a new grade 10.9 bolt and it will work for now. Im going to actually have to go up to Slicks and dig around their inventory with the long one in hand I think. The other option is I take the short one, cut it off for the clamping block and fab/have fabbed a new shifter or the old one welded on to the new good clamp. Like I said, its fixed good enough for now. But, all of those problems ended up being this one thing, a stressed/fatigued/stretched bolt. 63 cents.



Thanks again to all for the feedback, it really has been helpful

 

[MattEBeer]

Its the standard type of exhause, h-box, single pipe on each side. The shifter I got from salvage looks like it took a hit too, its bent in a rearward angle rather than 90 to the bike and the radius just ends up being too tight to clear the exhaust. I talked to the guy at Slicks, he will let me come up and dig in his inventory when I get a chance in a couple weeks. Im impressed with them, never done business before, but super friendly. I looked at the exploded diagram of that stud and its mounted to a plate that rocks for the shifter see part #13, it looks like it gets pretty well locked into place outside of its single axis pivot.

http://www.discounthondaparts.com/f...ry=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1981&fveh=3400



I figure the shifter caught something good which caused the stud to tweek, but Im really not sure if the damage would telegraph all the way through the housing and the plate ect. We will see. I have put 30 miles on it so far with no problems and Im being nice to the shifter, not jamming gears up or down, I dont want to cause any damage to those splines. I will definitely have to find a better solution for the long term than using that current old shifter with the ugly dirt polluted half depth weld on the one side of the clamp block.



I really want it to stay fixed. I want to ride. (which Im going to do right now to see my girl)