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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So last year I lost the left side injector mid flight and melted a piston. The injector is physically damaged, missing the nozzle. I'd like to replace it with something slightly bigger to make it run rich to compensate for modern ethanol mixed fuels. Where would I get such a beast and what flow do they make and what should I look for? Thanks!
 

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So last year I lost the left side injector mid flight and melted a piston. The injector is physically damaged, missing the nozzle. I'd like to replace it with something slightly bigger to make it run rich to compensate for modern ethanol mixed fuels. Where would I get such a beast and what flow do they make and what should I look for? Thanks!




Contact Russ Collins Engineering. He is a drag racing legend and has turned his efforts to fuel injection systems.

They may be able to match yours. He may have you send them in, like they do when the clean & flow test them.

Here is the website: http://www.rceng.com/Fuel-Injector-Cleaning-P43C0.aspx
 

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Slightly bigger ? Why don't you increase the fuel pressure ?



How much Ethanol are you going to run ? This because high ethanol ( E10 ) mixtures will cause damage to seals inside the fuel system.




Ethanol is not a nice liquid




Did you by any change run a high Ethanol mixture when your injector lost it's nozle ?



Why would you like to run Ethanol ? Higher octane rating ? More power ?





See FAQ at Russ Collins Engineering :



What type of fuels are your injectors suitable for?



Our injectors are suitable for gasoline as well as leaded race gas. Alcohol/methanol is extremely corrosive and should only be used for race only applications where the user can drain the alcohol/methanol and “pickle” the entire fuel system with gasoline at the end of each day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here in Colorado, all fuel is mixed with 10% ethanol. I don't want anything fancy, I don't want more power, it's just with our fuel and high altitude, the thing always runs lean and I just want it to be safe rich.
 

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Here in Colorado, all fuel is mixed with 10% ethanol. I don't want anything fancy, I don't want more power, it's just with our fuel and high altitude, the thing always runs lean and I just want it to be safe rich.


The injectors themselves will produce much more fuel than they currently are. Same injector used on both bikes. It's the signal from the computer that is limiting the fuel...



PK
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The injectors themselves will produce much more fuel than they currently are. Same injector used on both bikes. It's the signal from the computer that is limiting the fuel...



PK
But if I get a higher flowing injector, with the same signal it will flow more fuel. I'm still researching where to get anything since one of mine is just broken, but I may end up back at stock..
 

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But if I get a higher flowing injector, with the same signal it will flow more fuel. I'm still researching where to get anything since one of mine is just broken, but I may end up back at stock..
This may or may not work. Yes horsepower is a product of how much fuel you can burn, but you need air too. The tiny, by today's standards, throttle body may limit your horsepower anyway. When you hear about the car guys adding new injectors it is usually along with a larger throttle body. This is really where you need a dyno and an air/fuel meter to measure your results. An hour on the dyno will save you a lot of money and frustration. Keep us posted by all means of what you discover.
 

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I think we are getting a bit sidetracked here...



Sorry "kingbobdole"but when most of us on the Turbo forum hear LARGER INJECTORS we asume the persone want to crank up power
and not to enriche the fuel mixture to prevent a lean burm situation.



This being said the fuel injector can supply enough flow if you have a CX500TC, this because as CXTURBOBOOST stated both bikes ( CX500TC and CX650TC ) use the same injector.



I you have a CX650TC it may be that you are at the limit of the injector flow capacity.



Changing the EFi computer hasn't be done yet................




So I would change the fuel pressure. Change the fuel pressure regulator with an adjustable one ( you have to do some plumbing ) , ad a fuel pressure gauge.




Then run some tests to see if the fuel pressure doesn't drop under high flow conditions ( full power ), if it does you have again a lean running engine under high power conditions
 

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Bobdole, You sure have some limitations at that location. I'm guessing you are above 5000 feet elevation, but that, in itself, should not be beyond the calibration/fuel-air map in the EPROM.

The real problem might well be the extra oxygen that is "built into" the ethanol-additive fuel, and to get around that, you need to richen up the mixture that eventually arrives in the cylinder. Putting more fuel into the mixture doesn't easily alter the amount of oxygen getting there, because added ethanol fuel volume just takes its oxygen along with it. But if it is only 10% ethanol, you should be able to richen the mixture enough to offset the extra oxygen by fooling the ECU into thinking the bike hasn't fully warmed up, by inserting a small resistor in series with the lead to the water temperature sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The last two are right. I only want to enrichen it to make it safe non-detonationy. I live at 5160 ft but regularly go much higher into the mountians.



It also doesn't have to do with injector duty cycle. Even if the injectors can flow more, they won't as there's no feedback to enrichen the mixture past stock.



The injector trail is going cold... No denso chart I can find lists the injectors. I have this feeling less then 10k were made. I'm going to take what I have to a shop in Loveland and see what they say.



I have thought about upping the fuel pressure a touch. An adjustable regulator might be an interesting rig. Fooling the temp sensor is a thought too, but I wouldn't want it to run poorly when it's actually cold. I have heated grips so if it doesn't snow, I still ride.



For now I'll have the injectors cleaned and flowed and hopefully they can fix the nozzle. Then I'll see how she runs. I've also seen in the Subaru world that some shops can mod the injectors to flow slightly more. That would be my first choice.



Maybe I'll weld a bung in the exhaust T and rig a wide band to monitor it... Or maybe I'll have it dyno'd to get a read and just hope for the best.



I'm getting too complicated... I just want it safe.
 

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The last two are right. I only want to enrichen it to make it safe non-detonationy. I live at 5160 ft but regularly go much higher into the mountians.



It also doesn't have to do with injector duty cycle. Even if the injectors can flow more, they won't as there's no feedback to enrichen the mixture past stock.



The injector trail is going cold... No denso chart I can find lists the injectors. I have this feeling less then 10k were made. I'm going to take what I have to a shop in Loveland and see what they say.



I have thought about upping the fuel pressure a touch. An adjustable regulator might be an interesting rig. Fooling the temp sensor is a thought too, but I wouldn't want it to run poorly when it's actually cold. I have heated grips so if it doesn't snow, I still ride.



For now I'll have the injectors cleaned and flowed and hopefully they can fix the nozzle. Then I'll see how she runs. I've also seen in the Subaru world that some shops can mod the injectors to flow slightly more. That would be my first choice.



Maybe I'll weld a bung in the exhaust T and rig a wide band to monitor it... Or maybe I'll have it dyno'd to get a read and just hope for the best.



I'm getting too complicated... I just want it safe.
 

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Turbos and fuel injecture mixture. I sense you maybe overreacting to an injector failure. When you have the engine tore down for replacing the one side. Examine the undamaged side. Do things like a basic plug reading on the undammaged side. When you have the plug out look into the cylinder and examine the piston (can use a small camera flex lense to see). If you see dammage to that cylinder as well, then there is an issue with your timing, fuel delivery, boost pressure issue. If not don't worry be happy, fix the bad cylinder and get back on the bike and go fast again. After repairs take some exhaust readings anyway to see the O2 content. This will also confirm any fuel delivery issues.



I think thinking too much can be dangerous in this case. It sounds like component failure to me. As far as changing out the injectors goes, it seems to be way out there somewhare, at least until you examine the other possibilities of cause and effect.



Buick Rider
 
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