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Sadly MS droid is only on Android. It works pretty well once set up.
Shout if you need help with speedy. Mine was obviously a 2t project but I learnt a lot.
 

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1985 Honda Goldwing Limited Edition - 1995 Honda Goldwing GL1500 SE - 2012 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Found another candidate called Real Dash. These apps are for the gamers but if it works why not. Since you have yours setup, would you mind giving this one a go, and let us know how you got on.

Have most everything done paper wise for the project so I thought I'd connect to Tuner Studio - have the licensed version. Input my settings and think I created a project but it isn't working as expected. Think the issue is the person in front of the computer. Will have another go at it today.
 

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CX500 Turbo, Suzuki GT750 fuel injected triple special, Triumph Tiger 1200, Beta 300RR
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I away now for 10 days to Oz on a business trip.
when I get back I have a Dyno run to sort so will have a go then.
TS is a bit to take in first time round. See how you go and if you get stuck we can always set up a call.
 

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CX500 Turbo, Suzuki GT750 fuel injected triple special, Triumph Tiger 1200, Beta 300RR
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I had a quick look at RealDash. Looks ok. The only issue I can see is you can’t make up your own gauge sets as far as I can see like you can in Msdroid which is a big plus. Will keep playing.

Edit….. I lied you can edit them!!! Looks pretty cool and it runs on IOS which is a plus.
Will fire the bike up when I get home 👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Have been progressing the ECU replacement project. It has been a very good learning experience to date, and the collective over on the Speeduino forum have been very helpful.

The premise for this project is to use as much of the existing OEM CFI system as possible. I have been researching this for some time and have had a lot of good comments to move this project forward.

The board I am using is a Speeduino board v0.4.4 by Josh Stewart. Has a VR conditioner and step motor controller installed. Came with an Arduino MEGA 2560. The Speeduino v0.4.4 board is an interface board between the Arduino MEGA 2560 CPU - brains of the operation, and the CFI system. I'm amazed at how small the CPU - Arduino MEGA 2560 is and that it can be programmed to do everything an ECU is required to do, and almost everything the OEM ECU does.

The v0.4.4 board was developed as an interface board that can be used to connect to an existing system without too many changes. There are quite a few Speeduino units available, define your requirements and choose.

This project has made me dig deeper into the operation of the OEM CFI system. I know more about it that I envisioned when I bought the bike as a long term retirement project.

The OEM CLT and IAT sensors can be used as installed. The TPS sensor can be used providing it is a potentiometer type - 3 wire. The low impedance - low-Z injectors can be used providing you use a resistor pack to limit circuit current. Most aftermarket, modern ECUs use high impedance - high-Z injectors because the circuit current is naturally low with these, no resistors required. Map sensors can be used. The Speeduino has a boost function. The Speeduino allows for batch, wasted spark, semi-sequential and sequential firing.

Crank and cam sensors can be used as well, signal being conditioned through the VR conditioner board for digital use.

The passive IAC system can be used, does not have to be changed to an active system.

Most of the ECUs available to the general public require an O2 sensor, wide band is the preferred item.

I do loose some niceties that I have come to rely on such as the OEMECU on board diagnostic program, the dash error code indiction light. Do not know what the new ECU will do to the travel computer.

I will be using an existing PB sensor so that I don't have to route vacuum hose to the rear of the bike, the ECU is installed under the rear trunk. Will be modifying the vacuum hoses to suit the new install. Have 4 vacuum points to address. Will be using 4 equal length vacuum hoses into a vacuum block, then out to the PB (MAP) sensor.

The fuel pump priming aspect when the key is turned to the ON position works well.

Using the crank trigger wheel, and one cam sensor. This is so I do not have to replace the crank trigger wheel with a missing tooth trigger wheel.

The engine timing because of the trigger wheel is expected to be spot on or 180 degrees out - may need some fine tuning. This is similar to the old Dodge/Chrysler engines where the distributor sits in a slot. The timing was either spot on or 180 out. Hoping this is the case.

Will be installing a 14point7 WBO2 sensor - Spartan 3/Lite with LSU ADV sensor - location TBD.

Did a pin comparison between the Speeduino and OEM ECU. Have wired the Speeduino to suit. Install the Speeduino in the ECU position, key ON, no smoke good sign. A few issues came from this and are being addressed.

Using an OEM ECU enclosure for the Speeduino:
Motor vehicle Hood Vehicle Car Automotive exterior

Will be a good fit.

OEM wiring harness being used as well.

Using the existing wiring harness and ECU connector just in case I want to revert.

I'm not expecting any performance improvements, just a more modern reliable ECU that can be tweaked to optimize everyday usage.

The OEM ECU was state of the art for its day, and has stood the test of time; however, nothing lasts forever. These OEM ECUs are not that plentiful and do command a good dollar. Having mentioned this, once you ahem a good engine tune that works well, issues with the ECU can be addressed quite easily. A new Arduino MEGA 2560 cost less than $50.00 CDN. An interface board less than $100.00.

The Speeduino project is open source, another plus. There are a lot of options out there besides the Speeduino, but it caught my fancy, and is being updated and new products coming to the market as well.

Choice of an aftermarket ECU is based on several requirements. Much like buying a motorcycle, your riding profile, budget, and electronic/programming expertise influence your decision.

Don't let this little black box get the best of you. I'm a proponent of the if it ain't broke don't fix it, but if your ECU goes and a replacement is cost prohibitive and is still an old unit, the bike is now a boat anchor or lawn ornament. Converting to carbs is not going to be done. This conversion can be as expensive as doing an EFI conversion.

There are a lot of aftermarket add-ons that are available. These are very useful and address various symptoms that we riders want to take care of. The proliferation of these is simply because we are not able to get into the guts of the ECU and make the changes that we want. The installation of a new ECU like the Speeduino or equivalent, gets rid of this issue and associated costs. You get to the root problem.

Before you vilify me about my ECU replacement project, it is what I want to do. Have learned a lot and will continue to learn as I go forward. Hopefully my journey with this project can be of help to someone.

Enough pontificating. If you've read this far, thank you.
 

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Nice job mate. It was a big learning curve for me on my 2 stroke triple but I got there. Like you I want to do a turbo next so will stay tuned. I also want improve the turbo performance a bit so will start a thread on that sometime. Still researching 👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Thanks - it's a great project to learn about your bike. Wouldn't be doing this if the bike wasn't an FI model.

Thought about another issue I hope I can correct - has been part of the bike since I purchased it. Think about a lot of issues during the wee hours of the morning.

Have never been able to get the idle vacuum out of the red zone on the vacuum gauges. Use the vacuum gauges to balance the left/right cylinder banks. Honda allows 1.6" of HG difference. The vacuum gauges indicate that this is either a vacuum leak or timing issue. No vacuum leaks that I can find - use quick start to check. If it is timing, no way I will be able to change with the OEM ECU - probably a good thing. It will be part of the learning process.
 

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You can definitely mess with timing and dwell etc on speedy so that will be fun.

what are you doing about waste gate control and blow off valve use to avoid pressure drops in throttle down? I have a schematic I have done of how I want to improve the design with an inter cooler as well. I’m just boarding a flight from OZ so will post it when I get home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
The '85/'86 FI models have a passive IAC system. Air is drawn through an IAC vv that is o the same circuit as the fuel pump. Honda had an issue with this when designing '85/'86 FI models. The engine would be starved for air when throttle closed, IAC system designed. The air from the reed valves to each cylinder is injected downstream of the throttle plates.

This is the air system under the air chamber:
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IAC valve:
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IAC valve internals.
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This is a passive system. Reed valves are vacuum operated, draw a lot of air through the system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
I have the hose from the air chamber to the IAC valve off. Have put my finger over the inlet to the IAC valve and the engine will stall without this air source.
 

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So the CX500 Turbo has the same IAC valve with a reed valve box. On the CX500 Turbo the engine will stall also if the only bypass air comes from the IAC Valve. But on the CX500 Turbo there is also an idle screw at the throttle axis, which will also prevent the throttle butterfly valves to close completely. There should be also on on the Goldwing I presume
 

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Pim
I did wonder if a throttle body butterfly adjustment was included as the primary idle air source. That is what is used on my EFI 2 stroke.
Why does the turbo need an IAC as well in the throttle body box?
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 · (Edited)
The GW has an idle adjustment in the centre rear of the air chamber and a cylinder balance adjustment screw on the right side. The TPS adjustment is involved as well. The throttle plates are practically closed at idle, not enough combustion air flow to keep the engine idling without the IAC system.

Many people adjust the cylinder balance screw to adjust the idle instead of using the idle adjustment screw. When this is done the engine doesn't seem to operate correctly - go figure. This is one reason why when a person indicates that one of the early model FI GWs is being looked at or bought, get the manuals.

To adjust the TPS, the throttle plate lever stop screw is set at the factory and not to be touched, many of us have moved it and it throws the adjustment out of whack:
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You back off the idle screw, bring the throttle plate lever to the stop screw, insert a 0.011" feeler gauge between the throttle plate lever and the throttle plate lever stop screw to set the TPS VDC out at 0.480 VDC. Feeler gauge inserted to set TPS:
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Put the idle screw back to where it was - count the number of turns from when you started. This will put the idle back to where it was originally, approximately 950 RPM +/- 100, before setting the TPS voltage. What happens is the voltage out to the ECU at idle is now at the TPS setting of 0.48 VDC. Can't set this any other way. This indicates to the ECU that the throttle plates are in the closed position. If necessary you may have to balance the cylinder banks, and in doing so adjust the idle as well.

I had not understood the TPS adjustment procedure and because of this I moved the throttle plate lever stop screw instead of the other way round. I had a friend provide me with a picture with the measurement of his stop screw, he has not changed his. I used this as a guide and adjusted the stop screw back to where it should be. I experimented with the stop screw setting and TPS adjustment.

Moving the stop screw in/out did affect the TPS signal to the ECU. Depending on which way you moved the stop screw, the TPS voltage at idle went up/down for the TPS setting in the Supplement.

You set the TPS in TS at closed and wide open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Have been reading and perusing information regarding barometric compensation with the Speeduino ECU. Lots of queries regarding this issue, not a lot of resolution. Have found some info on the Speeduino forum.

What happens on engine start is that the baro pressure at start is read by the Speeduino and this value is used for the duration of operation until engine shut down. The only way to alter this is to stop/start the engine to reset the value and carry on. Bit of an issue if you are travelling in the mountains. Active baro sensing is a better and compensates for weather, altitude and such.

Honda installed a MAP sensor on the ECU cct board, little black box in this photo, guess which one is the original ECU, would think that the CX500/CX650 turbos would have one installed as well:
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I surmise that this sensor is for active baro measurements because, on my GW, there are two external MAP sensors for the ECU to get readings for the various maps used.

The Arduino 2560 has a dedicated pin A5 for the "input pin for Baro sensor". Going to put this aside for the moment, but it has tweaked my curiosity and I will continue to try and get a handle on the issue.

My O2 sensor from 14point7 came in, as did my new handheld OWON 2 CH oscilloscope/multimeter/signal generator unit. Nice kit, less than $100.00 CDN. More necessary components should be arriving today.

Going with an external MAP sensor to start, a Denso 079800 - one of the MAP sensors in the drop down listing. Using the Suzuki IAP sensor presently on the GW, working well, but it is not aligning with the specs from Honda, neither does the OEM PB (MAP) sensors. Going to bench test for values, may be a better fit than the Suzuki sensor.

Always something to look into.
 

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Pim
I did wonder if a throttle body butterfly adjustment was included as the primary idle air source. That is what is used on my EFI 2 stroke.
Why does the turbo need an IAC as well in the throttle body box?
The Throttle body adjustment is the primary air source for the idle rpm at normal operating temperatures. The IAC is there to increase the idle during warmup. So there is not a choke lever on the CX500 Turbo. On the CX650 Turbo they deleted the IAC valve and replaced it with a choke lever.

Honda installed a MAP sensor on the ECU cct board, little black box in this photo, guess which one is the original ECU, would think that the CX500/CX650 turbos would have one installed as well:
First a MAP sensor is a "Manifold Pressure Sensor" so if it is no connected to the manifold it is no a MAP sensor.

The CX500 Turbo has four pressure sensors and they al mounted on a tray above the battery:
P1 - inlet pressure or ambient air pressure
P2 - Turbo pressure
Pb - Manifold pressure
Ping - Also Manifold pressure but this is used by the ignition Unit

The CX650 Turbo only has two pressure sensors : ( cost reduction )
P2 - Turbo Pressure, when the ignition key is turned on the computer measures the ambient air pressure and stores this in it's memory
Pb - Manifold pressure
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
First a MAP sensor is a "Manifold Pressure Sensor" so if it is no connected to the manifold it is no a MAP sensor.
Correct. My bad. Could do dual duty if connected a certain way.

Checked the schematics for the v0.4.4 board, no installed baro cct. Have to look at a different solution.

Looking forward to one of you fellows installing a Speeduino on a turbo. Be an interesting project. Lots of board options out there. Might not have chosen the one I have. The UA4C would be a good alternative, has a barometer circuit. Get the bike operating with the v0.4.4, then switch to the UA4C. Going to research this.

Out to the garage now to find a place for the O2 sensor, not a lot of choices.
 

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Not sure where it would fit best. My end of it is a turbo requirement going forwards, Rednax's is a GL question, I was just bringing my Speeduino experiences in.

On the IAC question for my Turbo build and Speeduiono. Speeduino has a after start enrichment and a warm up enrichment curve so that removes the IAC/Choke need. It also has a cranking enrichment to aid starting. It works really well on my 2 stroke build.

I am pretty sure I can loose a few of the existing turbo sensors but as highlighted the ambient pressure sensing needs a review.

I also want to use the wideband O2 sensor as real time feedback.

My first go at a turbo sensor and gas flow diagram is;

Font Parallel Technology Circle Diagram


Boost control is run from the Speeduino map. The map is TPS Vs RPM and it sets a pressure in Kpa for the boost valve to actuate. The challenge will be working out the map from the way the mechanical gate works now which basically slowly opens at around 19-20 psi. I want to try to add an inter cooler. The bypass valve (if I understand the principle correctly) is to help with turbo stall/lag during throttle off and reduce the need for the resonance chamber.

Now all I need is another turbo engine to play with! It would be a shame to hack my standard bike :cry:
 
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