[Trickster]

Ever heard someone say....."where did they get their license?"



So is testing drivers once in their lifetime enough? Do our driving skills improve as we age, or does our example of



fine driving skills change the moment after we receive our licenses? Either its too easy nowadays to get certified, or



the testing process has eased, because the roads are filled with terrible drivers. Could be distractions from cell phones,



onboard GPS, road signs which are everywhere, but not valid excuses. Should aging drivers be re-tested every few years past



a certain age? IMO yes. Starting with my parents, at 84 Dads skills and reaction times have deteriorated significantly.



This summer, in my small hometown, twice I have seen seniors on the wrong side of a two lane road, due to ??? I just don't



know. With the every increasing aggressive and distracted drivers, one needs to be on their toes ALL the time, luck can



only carry you so far.

 

[Blindstitch]

I believe that drivers testing should be done with age. Not just for the old but for the young. There are a lot of clueless people out there that I don't know how they ever got their license or manage to keep it.



But if we required more testing it would be a strain on the dmv's in larger towns or cities. They do emissions testing here and for the sheer speed problem they cut out all vehicles made before 1996 so now it's just plug an play instead of hooking up each car to a dyno and making a few runs.



Not to kick the women but I have never had a girlfriend or friend that was able to drive up to my standards. Melody is probably the best and she knows she sucks. We will sit at an entrance of the street that has moderate traffic waiting for a large enough space to get the car in and then when that one goes along with several of it's friends we either wait longer or she dives right in. She isn't confidant in her geo. We will also sit on the slab and say she has to get over for an exit and has more than enough room she won't turn her blinker on till she knows she has the room to turn and that's if she doesn't get muscled out. I try to tell her that that's what the lights are for but she doesn't believe me. If we go into a high traffic area I drive otherwise it's a pain in the ass.



As long as i'm on the subject I hate morons that baby their piece of crap cars in construction zones. If you haven't guess I am surrounded. I have to drive 3 1/2 miles to work and lately it's taking 20 minutes or more when it was taking around 6. I'll get a row of asses in front of me that have to cross an intersection that is being worked on. The road is ground down about 4 inches and they beveled the edges so it's an easy in and out. But they will slow down to zero miles per out to get in and come out at the same speed. Before 10-15 cars could cross per light and now it's about 4. There has been at least one accident per day there since construction started two months ago.

 

[Trickster]

Well Don it may put a strain on the DMV, but at the same time ease the strain on EMT and hospital loads.



Think of the benefits of better trained drivers and the trickle down effect. Less chaos and accidents on the streets



should equal smoother and less strenuous driving for all. The now underworked tow-truck drivers could work at DMV as



testers.

 

[gopher]

Not to kick the women but I have never had a girlfriend or friend that was able to drive up to my standards.

Thats an observation many men have had. There is science that explains it because there are provable physical differences between male and female brains.

Men are better at judging time and the speed of things, mathematical calculations, orientation in space and visualizing things in three dimensions. Thats why males generally do better as mathematicians, pilots, wilderness guides, mechanical engineers, sculptors, speed racers and architects. And playing chess. There is no doubt that male/female brains are wired differently.

 

[jasonh]

I think when a 16 year old gets a license, they should have to be retested every 6 months til they're 18, then ever year until 21.



Also, an IQ/sanity/stupidity test should be administered before giving out licenses.



What I do like is now they are placing more restrictions on younger people driving. You need something like 50 hours of documented drive time with a parent to get your license, and a number of other things.

 

[Shep]

FYI the UK motorcycle license system,



http://www.begin-motorcycling.co.uk/law.htm



Even after passing you are restricted to a max of 33 Bhp for two years.However having ridden with some Restricted Honda Hornet 600s that 33 Bhp is way better delivered than my CXs

 

[DakotaMK]

Thats an observation many men have had. There is science that explains it because there are provable physical differences between male and female brains.

Men are better at judging time and the speed of things, mathematical calculations, orientation in space and visualizing things in three dimensions. Thats why males generally do better as mathematicians, pilots, wilderness guides, mechanical engineers, sculptors, speed racers and architects. And playing chess. There is no doubt that male/female brains are wired differently.

There is where I'll disagree. The studies on this have shown that IN THOSE AREAS women are a bit stronger, which is why (the 'experts' have reasoned) you see more women in interior design, etc. Also, we are hardwired a bit differently, which is why (if you've ever cared to pay attention) we tend to give directions based on landmarks. Ex; Drive south on Cedar Rd and turn left on Maple- you'll see a large red barn on your right. Men give directions based on approx. distances (miles, feet, etc)



As far as general driving, I think a lot of it is what you are taught and natural ability. I've seen plenty of guys who drive like crap! I've nearly been hit by guys who drive like crap- they don't even look by means of simply turning their heads before changing lanes. I've seen plenty of women who drive like crap too. I'm convinced that one of my acquaintences should take a taxi to work. I had to jump her car 3 times in a month because she never heard the idiot buzzer as she left her lights on and parked her car. Both of my parents are professional drivers- my mom was a state CDL tester for 12 yrs or so, dad raced stock cars in his spare time when I was younger, and even my grandma raced stock cars... if I didn't know how to drive, I would be in trouble, no questions asked! I can drive an Escort, to a full size conversion van, to a Dakota, to an F-350 diesel long bed super cab. Oh, and school busses. I was taught to know where the parameters of my vehicle are and stay aware of them as I am driving, no matter WHAT I'm driving. Troy says I'm the only woman he'd ever trust driving his truck. If I'm not comfortable in a situation, I don't put myself in that situation. I don't know how to drive a stickshift, and I have no business behind the wheel of anything being towed that needs to be backed up. Pulling forward I'm fine, but we've joked around that if we ever wanted to screw with the DNR, have me try and back the trailer into the water when we're getting ready to pull out.



..... and you had to have known I'd say something about all of this... LMAO

Love you guys still though

 

[Blindstitch]

Thats an observation many men have had. There is science that explains it because there are provable physical differences between male and female brains.

Men are better at judging time and the speed of things, mathematical calculations, orientation in space and visualizing things in three dimensions. Thats why males generally do better as mathematicians, pilots, wilderness guides, mechanical engineers, sculptors, speed racers and architects. And playing chess. There is no doubt that male/female brains are wired differently.

That is true but maybe i'm special. I believe when given the opportunity I will learn how to drive everything and I mean everything so if anyone has a big rig i'm curious.



But I also think situation/location has a lot to do with it. Being from the North I don't run hysterically in the streets when there's 10 or more inches of snow in front of me. I like mud too. So being able to cope with a variety of conditions has to do with it even if basic driving conditions are the main question. When I took drivers training they wanted us to experience good conditions and if it was in the forecast the bad.



One of the problems has to be that like with motorcycles drivers ed is really a basic driving course. It's learning how to turn and park. But what happens when a person is great driving through small town america and cant cope in the city.



Elimination of objects besides a wheel and shifter would probably help. No phones,beverages, make up, flipping through cd's, etc... Until that happens we can only drive like the way we do on a motorcycle expecting that nobody see's us.

 

[jasonh]

FYI the UK motorcycle license system,



http://www.begin-motorcycling.co.uk/law.htm



Even after passing you are restricted to a max of 33 Bhp for two years.However having ridden with some Restricted Honda Hornet 600s that 33 Bhp is way better delivered than my CXs

I actually personally like the idea behind the UK (and most of Europe, iirc) MC laws. It really prevents someone from taking a course, getting their license, then immediately going out and buying a bike that can do 180mph, and they die shortly after. (which I have read about more than a few times)



Honestly, I think a lot of US bikes have way more power than we really ever need. I mean, do you really need something that can do 1/4mi in less than 12 sec? Really?



Personally I was looking very hard at just a simple Ninja 250 when searching for my first bike. I probably would've ended up with one, but they are very popular and do not depreciate very quickly here (and I was on a restricted budget). The GL is plenty fast for me, honestly. Granted, I would love to get a Triumph Daytona 955i eventually, but it's more about the styling and the overall bike than simply how fast it goes.



There were 2 girls in my MSF course that already had bikes...both had R6's. They were afraid to ride them. Both girls passed the course (I wouldn't have passed them honestly), but they were very obviously afraid of even the 250's we were riding, and you could tell they weren't terribly confident with riding. Scary to think they got their licenses and likely went and jumped on their R6's....



Just my $0.02.

 

[Bryan]

My beef is with the manufacturers and the distractions they are purposely building into new autos in order to gain a modicum of additional market share and profitability at the expense of the safety of the end consumer, other drivers, riders, cyclists and pedestrians. The current Ford Edge commercial is demonstrative of an over-the-top display system that requires more than a glance to set the radio, GPS, HVAC and so forth. Gorgeous display that reuires more attention than the older, but very functional, dials and sliders of the past. Add to that cell phones, mp3 players, radar detectors, auxillary GPS units, DVD players, etc., etc. and it's a wonder that fatalities have not skyrocketed - and they would have had we not seen the advent of seven airbag safety systems and the like. The drivers of these theme parks on wheels will be safe, but what about those of us that cannot afford or do not desire to be so cloistered? Bottom line is now, perhaps more than ever, riders must maintain constant awareness and vigilance. That and keep your brakes in top working order.

 

[Linny]

Thats an observation many men have had. There is science that explains it because there are provable physical differences between male and female brains.

Men are better at judging time and the speed of things, mathematical calculations, orientation in space and visualizing things in three dimensions. Thats why males generally do better as mathematicians, pilots, wilderness guides, mechanical engineers, sculptors, speed racers and architects. And playing chess. There is no doubt that male/female brains are wired differently.

As a male and scientist I absolutely agree with you Gopher and Stitch! What I find troublesome about this recently is the fact that women are increasing in numbers and in some of the mentioned sciences surpassing men! On average they even tend to get better marks... Damn... They are a resourceful and blasted adaptable animal!!!

We males tend to distract easily. I think, beer and all that forsaken provacative clothing may lead to our downfall.

 

[Gene McCall]

There is where I'll disagree. The studies on this have shown that IN THOSE AREAS women are a bit stronger, which is why (the 'experts' have reasoned) you see more women in interior design, etc. Also, we are hardwired a bit differently, which is why (if you've ever cared to pay attention) we tend to give directions based on landmarks. Ex; Drive south on Cedar Rd and turn left on Maple- you'll see a large red barn on your right. Men give directions based on approx. distances (miles, feet, etc)



As far as general driving, I think a lot of it is what you are taught and natural ability. I've seen plenty of guys who drive like crap! I've nearly been hit by guys who drive like crap- they don't even look by means of simply turning their heads before changing lanes. I've seen plenty of women who drive like crap too. I'm convinced that one of my acquaintences should take a taxi to work. I had to jump her car 3 times in a month because she never heard the idiot buzzer as she left her lights on and parked her car. Both of my parents are professional drivers- my mom was a state CDL tester for 12 yrs or so, dad raced stock cars in his spare time when I was younger, and even my grandma raced stock cars... if I didn't know how to drive, I would be in trouble, no questions asked! I can drive an Escort, to a full size conversion van, to a Dakota, to an F-350 diesel long bed super cab. Oh, and school busses. I was taught to know where the parameters of my vehicle are and stay aware of them as I am driving, no matter WHAT I'm driving. Troy says I'm the only woman he'd ever trust driving his truck. If I'm not comfortable in a situation, I don't put myself in that situation. I don't know how to drive a stickshift, and I have no business behind the wheel of anything being towed that needs to be backed up. Pulling forward I'm fine, but we've joked around that if we ever wanted to screw with the DNR, have me try and back the trailer into the water when we're getting ready to pull out.



..... and you had to have known I'd say something about all of this... LMAO

Love you guys still though

Now I will have to agree with DMK on this one! My wife is a good driver, my sister is a good driver, my daughter (with a qualifier) is a good driver and my oldest granddaughter is a poor driver! I have ridden with many good female drivers and I don't think there are more poor ones than is present in the male species. Now the qualifier for my daughter is that she is cell phone addicted! We are working on her and refuse to talk to her if she is calling from her car. As a result she does not always tell us when she is driving!



Now for continued testing after a certain age. I am in favor of it and I think everyone should be subject to it after a certain age (65 or 70) based on an examiner's prelim assesment. Everyone ages differently and it is very subjective. My wife's brother, who is now 88 had to give up driving over 5 years ago, at his daughter's insistentence. My next door neighbor is also 88, she is still driving and safely! Once tested it should take place every year or at least every 2 years, I am living proof that your health can change for the worse in a short time.

Gene

 

[DakotaMK]

I am living proof that your health can change for the worse in a short time.

Gene

and you have one of the coolest rides, yet!!! :thumbs up:

 

[Cobram]

Most fatal accidents are caused by and happen to the 16-21 age group. You can make the test as hard as you want, you can give them all the training humanly possible, it all goes out the window when the stupidity hormones kick in.



BTDT, got the T-shirt, and to this day wonder how I survived some of the things I used to do. I started even earlier, started my legal driving at 14 1/2.

 

[Gene McCall]

Most fatal accidents are caused by and happen to the 16-21 age group. You can make the test as hard as you want, you can give them all the training humanly possible, it all goes out the window when the stupidity hormones kick in.



BTDT, got the T-shirt, and to this day wonder how I survived some of the things I used to do. I started even earlier, started my legal driving at 14 1/2.

CoB, I started riding at 12 (not legal, even then) and how I survived the next 8 years I'll never know! At about 16 I turned a complete flip in the air on my 250 Puch (read Allstate, it was sold by Sears, really!). For a 250 that bike was heavy, built like a tank! I rode it home and only had to replace the headlight. Now our roads are just too crowded for the young to survive!



DMK, thanks for the kind word! As I said ageing is very subjective and I refuse to subject myself to age! I absolutely refuse to grow up!

Gene

 

[Shep]

Some interesting reading,



http://www.edgarsnyder.com/motorcycle-accident/statistics.html



http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/motorcycle-accident-statistics.htm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motorcycle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year



which I'm sure will be mirrored to some degree over here and it now may not be the younger riders who make up the majority of motorcycle fatalities as there are more older riders about and many on powerful machines.



Common factors seem to be riding without helmets,bad cornering and of course speed.

 

[Gene McCall]

Shep, it appears a lot of men, in an effort to regain their lost youth, go out with fistfulls of money and buy a big, powerful bike, far beyond their ability to ride and use it to kill or maim themselves and sometimes others! Humans are the only animal stupid enough to kill itself on a regular basis. I really get upset when another state changes its law to make helmets optional, that is stupidity compounded!

Gene

 

[doral]

First of all I have to say that the government has its nose in too much already. So, I'm fundamentally opposed to any more bureaucratic rules and regulations.



Cobram is right. Most mv accidents are caused by young people. Too much alcohol is involved in a large percentage of accidents. Think about it. The young people who cause accidents have just recently been tested. Sometimes more than once. A young relative of mine took an approved driver training course, passed it and then went on to fail the government testing three times before finally passing. We already have laws against driving while under the influence. People, young and old do it anyway. Drunks get caught, pay a fine and get in the car and drive away. I believe that DUIs causing accidents should lose their license for at least 1 year. More if there was serious injury involved to other parties.



Safe driving is mostly a matter of mental attitude and no government bureaucrat can test for that. It's too easily faked. And it can change in a heartbeat. Two days ago I was stopped at a red light. I noticed (because she was a 10) the woman in the car in the next lane. I saw her pick up her cell and start talking. Within seconds she burst into tears. The light turned green and she rocketed out, still in tears, still on the cell and swerving all over the road. She had been driving normally before the phone call. This is not a gender problem. Most incidents of road rage involve males. Usually young ones. Tell me how more testing will stop that.



I'll accept testing for physical ability. I should say disability, but that's not politically correct now. But only if it's done for ALL ages. I happen to be 80 and I'm in better physical condition and have better eyesight than a lot of men half my age.



In Alberta, every doctor has the right to notify MV Branch if they think that their patient, whatever age, is not fit to drive. I've only heard of it being done once. Doctors hate to see someone come in for a Driver's Medical because they make a lot less money for it than they do for a regular office visit. Trickster, your 84 year old father has had at least two, probably three Driver's Medical exams since he was 75. Presumably a competent medical examiner has signed forms stating that in his opinion your father is fit to drive. I think that leaves the ball in your court now. A friend of mine recently had his driver's license revoked at the request of his sons. You can walk into any MV Registry office and ask about that.



Finally, to test every driver, even once in 5 years, would require an army of bureaucrats. Every government that I know of is going billions in the hole every year already. All merits of the idea aside, it's a luxury that we just can't afford.

 

[doral]

Shep, it appears a lot of men, in an effort to regain their lost youth, go out with fistfulls of money and buy a big, powerful bike, far beyond their ability to ride and use it to kill or maim themselves and sometimes others! Humans are the only animal stupid enough to kill itself on a regular basis. I really get upset when another state changes its law to make helmets optional, that is stupidity compounded!

Gene

I agree.

 

[kingston73]

I completely believe in multiple testing for drivers.  Up here, kids need to take a "drivers ed" course that they pay for with their own money.  In my eye's its a flawed system, the driving in MA and RI is the worst I've seen and I've lived in 5 different states now.  I really think it's poorly taught drivers who go on to learn even worse habits, and then old age eventually deteriorates their driving skills and it's all down hill from there.