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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought my 79 cx500 custom with 21,000 miles on the clock. The guy I bought it from was the second owner and didn't use it much. When I got it home I found this old repair receipt which has been a mystery to me and thought maybe someone can help me figure out why all this work needed to be done at 18,700 miles for a no start problem. I actually called the phone# on the invoice and Talked to the original owner who sounded quite old and although he remembered paying for all the work was not much help. The repair shop is no longer in business. What could have possibly happened for this bike to have needed all the parts on this invoice.

My first thought was maybe this shop wasted a lot of time trying to figure it out that they tried to make up their losses by telling the old guy it needed all this stuff. And why the hell would they have put a used stator in it when

everything else was new? I could not figure out how to attach the doc. on a new post so I will post it in a reply to this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I bought my 79 cx500 custom with 21,000 miles on the clock. The guy I bought it from was the second owner and didn't use it much. When I got it home I found this old repair receipt which has been a mystery to me and thought maybe someone can help me figure out why all this work needed to be done at 18,700 miles for a no start problem. I actually called the phone# on the invoice and Talked to the original owner who sounded quite old and although he remembered paying for all the work was not much help. The repair shop is no longer in business. What could have possibly happened for this bike to have needed all the parts on this invoice.

My first thought was maybe this shop wasted a lot of time trying to figure it out that they tried to make up their losses by telling the old guy it needed all this stuff. And why the hell would they have put a used stator in it when

everything else was new? I could not figure out how to attach the doc. on a new post so I will post it in a reply to this one.
I guess first I need help attaching the document, what happened to the attach button that's usually down below?
 

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Holy crap!



They replaced the oil pump, rocker arms, cam shaft AND the rings on this bike.



Except for the used stator, you have a practically new motor in that thing.

at least as far as wear parts is concerned.



The rings are know to last 50+k miles.

I have never heard of anyone needing to change their rocker arms before. I guess thay can wear out. but I couldn't guess the mileage.

The oil pump just is not a problem on these bikes. I figure I Might think of changing mine at 90k when I replace the cam chain again.



I doubt very much that this bike Needed any of this besides the stator.

They likely could not Find a new or rebuilt stator available. so needed to buy a used one.

Back in '00 it was hard to find anyone that could rebuild a CDI stator.



I think they found some wear on the bolt inside the cam chain, probably due to poor maintenance, and replace the entire cam chain system.

As for the rings and oil pump. I have No idea.

and the cam and rocker arms.... maybe they found some rust on the cam at the oil seal and decided to replace it and the cam Followers as a set.



I can guess at what Actually happened though.



I think it had a stator failure. there is the "no start" in this list of parts.

Then they sold the previous owner all the rest of this stuff.



It may have had "low compression" and if it was cranking slow, "low oil pressure".



the spec in the manual is 171psi on a compression test. but I have Never gotten more than 150psi during a test on a CX or GL. my GL500 regularly tested at ~130psi. and I put over 25k miles on it and retired it with over 55k miles and Running good.



at less then 1100 rpm, the oil psi is Low. even on a New CX the oil psi would be low at less than 1100 rpm.

If they tested it at crank speeds, I bet it looked Really low. so even if the owner was standing right there looking, they could sell him rings and an oil pump.



I can only guess they showed the guy the "damage" on the tail end of the cam shaft and told him it needed to be replace as a set with the cam Followers, but wrote them down as rocker arms.

It is very common to find some pitting on the cam around the oil seal and water pump seal.

but not actually where the oil seal rides on the cam. so it may Look bad, but not actually have anything wrong with it or need replacement.





In my opinion, you have a bike with a practically New motor and if you have a CDI problem, I would just put a ignititech on it.



OR they never replaced any parts except for the used stator. and Maybe the cam chain.



with only 3k miles on the cam chain that we Know will last 40-50k miles (on a 500, the 650's last 40-45k)

I would try the dental mirror trick to see if the cam chain tensioner is all the way at the top.

if it looks to be at the midway or more wear, I would assume they didn't replace anything but the gaskets and stator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Holy crap!



They replaced the oil pump, rocker arms, cam shaft AND the rings on this bike.



Except for the used stator, you have a practically new motor in that thing.

at least as far as wear parts is concerned.



The rings are know to last 50+k miles.

I have never heard of anyone needing to change their rocker arms before. I guess thay can wear out. but I couldn't guess the mileage.

The oil pump just is not a problem on these bikes. I figure I Might think of changing mine at 90k when I replace the cam chain again.



I doubt very much that this bike Needed any of this besides the stator.

They likely could not Find a new or rebuilt stator available. so needed to buy a used one.

Back in '00 it was hard to find anyone that could rebuild a CDI stator.



I think they found some wear on the bolt inside the cam chain, probably due to poor maintenance, and replace the entire cam chain system.

As for the rings and oil pump. I have No idea.

and the cam and rocker arms.... maybe they found some rust on the cam at the oil seal and decided to replace it and the cam Followers as a set.



I can guess at what Actually happened though.



I think it had a stator failure. there is the "no start" in this list of parts.

Then they sold the previous owner all the rest of this stuff.



It may have had "low compression" and if it was cranking slow, "low oil pressure".



the spec in the manual is 171psi on a compression test. but I have Never gotten more than 150psi during a test on a CX or GL. my GL500 regularly tested at ~130psi. and I put over 25k miles on it and retired it with over 55k miles and Running good.



at less then 1100 rpm, the oil psi is Low. even on a New CX the oil psi would be low at less than 1100 rpm.

If they tested it at crank speeds, I bet it looked Really low. so even if the owner was standing right there looking, they could sell him rings and an oil pump.



I can only guess they showed the guy the "damage" on the tail end of the cam shaft and told him it needed to be replace as a set with the cam Followers, but wrote them down as rocker arms.

It is very common to find some pitting on the cam around the oil seal and water pump seal.

but not actually where the oil seal rides on the cam. so it may Look bad, but not actually have anything wrong with it or need replacement.





In my opinion, you have a bike with a practically New motor and if you have a CDI problem, I would just put a ignititech on it.



OR they never replaced any parts except for the used stator. and Maybe the cam chain.



with only 3k miles on the cam chain that we Know will last 40-50k miles (on a 500, the 650's last 40-45k)

I would try the dental mirror trick to see if the cam chain tensioner is all the way at the top.

if it looks to be at the midway or more wear, I would assume they didn't replace anything but the gaskets and stator.
Thanks for the feedback. The bike runs real smooth and quiet. I would love to think I have all those new parts in there but it just sounds so odd. I will do the mirror check next time i do the valves. $2400 hell what did this bike sell for new?
 

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I know this won't be of much use, but the poor old guy did seem to pay $1001 for a moron. At least that is what it looks like to my eyes.




EDIT*.....I'll be damned, I asked rampsbaby and she said that's what she saw too!!!!
 

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Wow they installed the moron too. Never thought it would cost that much to help a guy onto his bike. Would have been cheaper to source a new engine.
 

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Poor guy, I think he got ripped off. I cannot imagine what kind of failure would have destroyed the cam, followers and oil pump but not damaged the bearings? And it seems they changed the piston rings, but not the conrod bearings?



The rings could have been needed if water had entered the cylinders and there was some corrosion, not uncommon on engines that stood for a long time. The valve could have been changed if the hardening was worn through on the tip where it makes contact with the adjusting screw. Not uncommon on CX's.



But the camshaft and followers I can't understand. Perhaps they even charged him without changing the parts? No wonder they are no longer in business.



Michael
 

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unbelievable

that invoice was issued in 2000,11 years ago.what would be the equivilent in a shop to-day...........
 

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Ouch!

All that at 18700???

even an oil pump??

I too cant help wondering if they actually did most of that

work or took the poor guy to the cleaners.

Its vaguely possible a PO thraped it relentlessly and never bothered to

do simple maintenance but I doubt it somehow.
 

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They opened it up for the stator and made up the rest, no indication of mechanical problem and the bike was cranking fine. Glad this shop is history, but there are plenty like it out there. If you don't do your own work, caveat emptor. Just surprised it wasn't a dealer.
 

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If you have even the slightest mechanical aptitude it's all a piece of cake except when you come to the carbs and that's what Larry's book is for. Just download the full owner's manual and service manual, read through it and you'll never be in need again.
 

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It is hard to say that the garage ripped the PO off with put knowing all the facts,,



Normally it is SOP to replace the oil pump when rebuilding an engine.

If this was not a Honda shop,,but an engine rebuilders, they would not know that there are seldom oil pump problems.



If you look at the parts that were replaced they are all top end parts,,if they took the engine apart and found wear on those parts,,the first thing they may suspect would be an oil pressure problem.





It had "compression test" on the work order, so the original owner may have had reason to think it had low compression (which it did),,maybe he ran it low on oil?





It is all guess work without knowing all the facts,,,





or maybe they took the guy to the cleaners
 

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O.K. I added the link in my signature , it's the lower flicker link. Would love some feedback on this.
I saw the valve on the repair ticket and thought maybe it had dropped a valve, but they did not replace the pistons, just the rings. It sounds like the bike may have just had a total valve train failure. Wonder if it ran out of oil at some point ruining the cam and rockers. In that case you would think there would have been bearing failure too. It looks like the compression was about 100 psi which seems strange too, wonder if that was a cam chain issue.



I am afraid this may remain a mystery too. Assuming the bike runs fine now, I would use your oil changes as a gauge of the conditions inside. If the oil remains clean and free of chunks from inside, then the problem must have been solved. That was a big chunk of money to spend on repairing a CX, fraud is always a possibility, but you have to think an owner might have dropped by to see the engine in pieces and have the issues explained to him.



By the way, I like what you have done with the bike, it is very sharp looking. I bet people didn't know that Yamaha made a twisted twin, push-rod bike too.

Ed
 

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Wow they installed the moron too. Never thought it would cost that much to help a guy onto his bike. Would have been cheaper to source a new engine.


looks like "MORON" to me too. I had to read that three times...






My Verdict... Who Knows? It coulda been ? or MAybe? I Dunno?
 

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Cam chain, tensioner, and guide. HMMMMM...... at 18k



$2400 for a used stator......HMMMMM..... maybe there is an underlying reason they are no longer in business.
 

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Cam chain, tensioner, and guide. HMMMMM...... at 18k



$2400 for a used stator......HMMMMM..... maybe there is an underlying reason they are no longer in business.
hmmm,,,,,,,yeahhhh its catching
 
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