[Motorcyclepat]

Hey,

I'm glad this forum is here.

I just picked up an 82 GL500 with a lot of water mixed in with the oil. 19k

Immediate thought was a blown head gasket., But the bike runs too good.

So i did a compression test on both cylinders. 150 lbs in one, 151 lbs in the other.

I'm guessing the next thing I should do is check the water pump oil seal.

Does any one know a test for this, without pulling out the engine?

Also, is there something else that I could be overlooking, if so ... what kind of tests should I do?

 

[redcloud]

Coolant in the oil is all bad, if in fact that is what you have. After running and warmed up the oil will be frothy/milky, and the oil properties all go out the window, and the oil becomes useless. Bearing are all designed with the oil ratings in mind, and the emulisification that occurs with coolant changes the oils ratings big time.



A couple questions...

Is the oil level higher than it should be, and at the same time, is your coolant level lower than it should be?

What does the coolant look like? Is it like coffee, or is it pure glycol, clear, and all the stuff good clean glycol should be?

Have you changed the oil to see if you had moisture ingress of some sort?



Others will have better insight as to the water & oil sides of the motor, as well as points of coolant ingress. I would guess a head gasket failure, but the compression check says otherwise...



for now I would probably suggest not riding until you get this sorted out, as you can spin a bearing or worse can happen to the motor.

 

[Motorcyclepat]

Coolant in the oil is all bad, if in fact that is what you have. After running and warmed up the oil will be frothy/milky, and the oil properties all go out the window, and the oil becomes useless. Bearing are all designed with the oil ratings in mind, and the emulisification that occurs with coolant changes the oils ratings big time.



A couple questions...

Is the oil level higher than it should be, and at the same time, is your coolant level lower than it should be?

What does the coolant look like? Is it like coffee, or is it pure glycol, clear, and all the stuff good clean glycol should be?

Have you changed the oil to see if you had moisture ingress of some sort?



Others will have better insight as to the water & oil sides of the motor, as well as points of coolant ingress. I would guess a head gasket failure, but the compression check says otherwise...



for now I would probably suggest not riding until you get this sorted out, as you can spin a bearing or worse can happen to the motor.

 

[DavidfromWisconsin]

Check the bleed hole under the water pump. If is plugged there is your problem. If it isn't plugged then the water isn't coming from the pump.



Then it has to be coming from somewhere else.

 

[Motorcyclepat]

Thanks Rick,

The bike had sat for 3 years,. The previous owner thought it might have been a head gasket leak or water pump issue.

The oil now looks like a chocolate milk shake. I just put water in the reserve tank, and then started it up.

That tank had been previously dry. Before starting it, I pulled the dip stick, and it looked like reasonably healthy oil. I ran the bike up and down the street about a mile or so.

Now the oil is over full and chocolate lokking.

 

[Motorcyclepat]

Great advise on checking the bleed hole in the pump,

I'll do that Tomorrow as soon as I get home from work, and post what I found.

 

[81custom]

If there is any chance of some pictures - that will help with the diagnosis a bit more.



But from what has been said so far - I think it could be the water pump seal has failed..



If the bike has sat for a while there is always the possibility of moisture in the oil - but if yours has gone to chocolate thickshake - then it's more than normal.....



don't ride it too far or keep it running longer than necessary - you could do terminal damage.

 

[redcloud]

...but if yours has gone to chocolate thickshake - then it's more than normal.....



don't ride it too far or keep it running longer than necessary - you could do terminal damage.

All the signs and symptoms are there...at this point DON'T Ride it or run the motor as you WILL damage it!! this forum will guide you along the right path...Just sit back and soak up the experience these folks have to offer--they'll get you through it!

 

[CXPHREAK]

Unless the weephole is blocked any coolant leak from the mech. seal should dribble out of the weep hole. The operative word here is dribble because even a worn one doesn't usually leak enough to turn your oil into filth in just a run up and down the street. Catastrophic failure here probably wouldn't be out of the question though so it COULD still be the mech seal.



Myself, I'd be leaning more towards the head gasket because of the apparent speed/volume of the leak into the oil.



It is possible for a head gasket to leak without the combustion chamber being involved. possibly between the point in the coolant jacket adjacent to the main oil drain gallery back to the bottom of the motor which is lower pressure than the 13 PSI in the cooling system of a warm motor.

 

[Blindstitch]

Try to push a thin wire into the weep hole and see if it's plugged. Some people use welding tip cleaners.



The straw is where the hole is.

 

[bandit]

Unless the weephole is blocked any coolant leak from the mech. seal should dribble out of the weep hole. The operative word here is dribble because even a worn one doesn't usually leak enough to turn your oil into filth in just a run up and down the street. Catastrophic failure here probably wouldn't be out of the question though so it COULD still be the mech seal.



Myself, I'd be leaning more towards the head gasket because of the apparent speed/volume of the leak into the oil.



It is possible for a head gasket to leak without the combustion chamber being involved. possibly between the point in the coolant jacket adjacent to the main oil drain gallery back to the bottom of the motor which is lower pressure than the 13 PSI in the cooling system of a warm motor.

agree 100%.the bikes been sat for 3 years.head gaskets are easy to change[engine in]while there,clean the heads up,lap the valves.you then know that side of the motor is fine.a good flush/clean of the cooling system.it might just be all it needs.



ok,if CXP and i have it wrong,you are going to have to drop the engine,at least you then know the problems in the rear[not in the front]

my 10c

 

[Shep]

The most common cause of this if not head gasket failure(Yours seems fine) is the Oil seal in the rear of the engine casing which is the engine side part of the Water pump assembly.This is a full engine out job.They go brittle if the bikes are not used and fail.In use they can last well over 100,00+ miles.



They actually seal the end of the Cam-shaft before it goes out of the engine and then outer water pump assembly goes on.



Part number 11 on here,



http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cx500a-1980england_model16465/partslist/E12.html



They are the same part for all CX/GL500 models.



If this is the case and you have some basic mechanical skills many people have been mentored by this and other forums to do the engine drop and fix themselves and there will be plenty of people on-hand 24/7 to help.

If this in deed the case you may want to give the rear engine a decent service so read and bookmark this thread,



http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/126066/ShowPost.aspx



The job may appear daunting to a new user but it's not as hard as people 1st think.

 

[Motorcyclepat]

You guys are great. I found the weep hole, and can see dried dirty water streaks. So i will read on to the links you have given me on servicing the back of the emgine.

I've pulled bike engines before, and after fimding and downloading a service manual i should be ok.

There is a seal kit on ebay for 29.00 especialy for cx and gl 500's has o rings with it too, as well as cam seal along with the waterpump oil seal . Any thoughts??

Also, it sounds like the mechanical seal last a lot longer,

But what is your feedback?

I'm ready to listen and learn from the masters!

 

[Dash]

I've had four CX/GL500's over the years and have experienced the chocolate latte milkshake in the crankcase on two of the four cycles.



The first time was on an '82 CX500. In that case the mechanical seal failed when the rubber accordion separated from the stamped steel cup. Solution was to replace the mechanical seal using the in situ "Shep" method.



Had the same condition on my '81 GL500. Back story is that this bike sat for 11 years before I bought it. Mechanical seal went bad after about 50 miles. Replaced it and 100 miles later I again had the chocolate latte milkshake in my crankcase. This time the problem was the left head gasket. I didn't do a compression test but the bike wouldn't crank though battery was new and starter motor was wheezing. Pulled the spark plugs to lower the load on the starter and hit the button. Whoa, water shot out ten feet from the left spark plug hole. So I replaced the left head gasket.



One month later, same problem and this time it was the right head gasket. Quite a few of us on this forum who picked up CX/GL500's that hadn't been run for several years have experienced failed head gaskets thus I should have replaced them both since my bike had sat for so long.



I've been a member of this and the previous forum for several years and it seems like among CX/GL500 forum members, a failed mechanical seal is the most common cause for coolant and oil mixing. After that, it's head gasket failure. Lastly, it's the camshaft oil seal.

 

[Dash]

As was already mentioned, please only run the bike to diagnose it. I had an '82 CX500 in good condition with 14k miles on it when the mechanical seal went bad. I rode the bike for around 100 miles like that and blew out the big end bearing thus I had to replace the motor. Motor was going boom boom boom and vibrating like crazy. A neighbor happened to have a CX500 motor laying around from a co-kart project that didn't get off the ground so I bought it from him.



The moral of this story though, is that I knew my crankcase oil was mixed with water but I rode it anyway. I had about 20 miles to go to get home when I first noticed some thumping. It got progressively worse and by the time I got home it was pounding. After swapping motors, I did a forensic analysis of the blown motor which proved the crankshaft bearings were shot.

 

[Motorcyclepat]

If I understand what everybody is telling me, and since I've already got the head gaskets comming in the mail.

I should

1. replace the head gaskets (both)

2. pull the engine and rear cover,

3. replace the oil and mechanical seal.

4. if I want to get real crazy, replace the cam seal.

5. ride

Any thing else?

 

[marshallf3]

Shifter seal, clutch actuator arm rod seal. Both items really cheap, TAS has them and gives free shipping on small items like this.

 

[DaveF]

Please take a few minutes to edit your signature to show your bike's year and model.

...Any thing else?

O-ring on the cam chain tension adjuster bolt.

 

[TREV2010]

One a comment, if the bike stood for 3 years and has had water in the oil and it's been running like this I am going to assume the worse and tell you, your camshaft lobes are rusting which will destroy the cam followers, crank and conrods will also be rusted......not even going to mention the roller bearings



If you going to drop the motor I would split it and check...pointless just filling with fresh oil once it is rusted, the rust will also destroy the oil pumps gears for sure and in the end blow the motor.

 

[bandit]

If I understand what everybody is telling me, and since I've already got the head gaskets comming in the mail.

I should

1. replace the head gaskets (both)

2. pull the engine and rear cover,

3. replace the oil and mechanical seal.

4. if I want to get real crazy, replace the cam seal.

5. ride

Any thing else?

no Pat,im not saying that,probably everyone else is.lol

ok,you do not know the issue.water in oil,coming from the front or the backdoor?

it could be either yes.

you have head gaskets coming anyway.that is the front door,engine in job.not hard.if it were my bike,do the front door first.it wont do any harm,,plus it could be the issue.if it is,fine...leave the complete engine pull it in the winter.

if not,

what have you lost....nothing.go and pull the engine.



my 10c

my heads when i pulled them last year

after i dusted them off