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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First post on the new site. Sure this info is stored some place but not yet in this new home. I have owned my 1983 GL650I for almost two years, it has just over 59000 miles on it.

I don't know if it's possible that it still has original clutch in it. The adjuster at clutch housing is adjusted towards the end of it's limit so i'm guessing it's the original.I have a Honda manual and a Clymers manual, but there are some wear limits I can't locate in either one. I have found the wearlimits for the 6 ea. Friction Disks, and Disk B friction Disk. The following are the components I've not found wear limits on.





1. Can not find wear limits on the 6 ea. clutch plates. 1st clutch I've worked on that I can't find wear limits on plates.



2. Can not find wear limits for Friction Disk Honda Calls (Disk, CL Friction) Part # 22201-286-010. It is the first friction plate placed in (outer Housing) on reassembly. Honda manual pg-24-21 refers to it as Clutch Disk(pressure plate side).



3. Plate B Clutch with Wave Spring. Any wear limits or just check for wave spring damage as manual states.





Perhaps I've just missed them, if thats not the case I would appreciate any responses that would clarify what I'm not seeing.



Even though I know I'll show my age by saying I enjoyed the old site. I'm glad the knowledge base is transferring over to the new, and many thanks to them that are doing all the work.



Take Care



Tim
 

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I snagged this from another site.



Wear limits



Measure the thickness of the plates and the length of the clutch springs.



Clutch spring minimum lengths : 500cc engines 1.2795" / 32.5mm; 650cc engines 1.4921" / 37.9mm.



500 Turbo spring limit is 34mm but I found that whilst my 500 Turbo's springs were well within this limit, the clutch was slipping and I fitted heavy duty springs and friction plates from M&P - cost about £55.



Clutch plate thickness : Type A is 0.1032 - 0.1094" / 2.62-2.78 mm, service limit 0.0906" / 2.3 mm; and Type B is 0.1378" / 3.5 mm, service limit 0.1221" / 3.1 mm for all five plates for the 500 or all six plates for the 650)
 

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'84 CX650E that is evolving into a GL500
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You can easily tell the state of your clutch without disassembling anything. The following was originally posted on the old Australian MSN CX forum by Don in Oz:



"The clutch in a CX500 shows its wear-state by the angle of the actuator arm on the right-hand side of the motor - but it's probably the opposite to what you would expect - the arm is about 20 degrees UP when the clutch "pack" is new, and it gets to about 20 degrees DOWN from horizontal when the plates are nearly worn out. If it gets to about 30 degrees below horizontal, then you will probably find that the pressure plate has "bottomed-out" on the clutch centre, and the plates will spin freely with no pressure on them at all. Usually, by the time your wear has progressed to the 20 degrees down, you have a very bad case of clutch slip.

As the clutch plates wear, you have to screw IN the adjuster on the handlebar lever mount to compensate.

All this assumes that you have the correct thickness gaskets between the front cover and the crankcase, between the clutch cover and the front cover, and that the normal thrust washer/spacer has been used at the rear of the gearbox input shaft."



If you really want to measure your plates, the measurements are in the GL500 part of the GL500 & GL650 FSM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the added info Sidecar Bob. Some of my confusion is the switching of the names of componets between pictures and data sheets in the

Clymers and Honda manuals. Friction Disks and then Clutch Plates. Then in Data Sheet all is called Plates A & B. Honda Parts sheet then seems

to identify them by a third name. End result has been, with three different names from three different source's What is wear limit on each

componet in clutch pack. If I remember correctly three different part numbers are listed for the friction plates. Does each different friction

plate have the same wear limit? and by the GL650 spec sheet is this for Plate A or B. Then the Clutch plates ( no friction material) the picture

of the clutch componet's in section 24 of Honda manual if I remember correctly does not identify (A) componets. So which limit is used A or B.

I want to be sure and not guess. My guess to what they mean is, one wear limit is all Friction Disks, the other wear limit is all Clutch plates

( no friction material). But once again which is what? That just leaves the Clutch Plate (no friction material)that has wave spring in the middle. Have not been able to get a bearing on what wear limit is on it also. You would'nt guess it but I read spec. and data sheets almost daily at work

with no problems. Perhaps it is the way the data is presented, I'm just not able with confidence to determine what spec goes with what componet.



Thanks



Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
After I got home noted horizontal angle of actuator arm. Measured about 6-7 deg. down. So ok for now. Have a mechanic down the road about 45 min. who owns his own shop.

Said he once owned about four of the 500cc models and a 650I. I'll stop by sometime and see what he says about wear limits for each clutch part.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
But seriously, For you folks that work on these bikes and clutches all the time. Of the 15 different pieces that comprise the clutch pack.



1. Friction Disks 3 types of disks, three different part numbers.



2. Clutch Plates, Including plate with wave spring in middle.



What is the wear limit of each disk and plate. I have all the manuals and spec. sheets and pictures. Compaired to other motorcycle clutchs

I've measured or replaced I find for this Model, GL650I the info is not clear. I'll call myself a DUMMY first and make that clear. But in

return I guess I'm looking for clear step by step info. even though to others it might seem straight forward and clear.



EXAMPLE: In disassembly at the point of removing clutch Disks and Plates the 1st item is a (Friction Disk)it is a different part# from

the other Friction Disks and it's wear limit is XXXX.





I do give a thank-you to all that have responded. Perhaps it is unfair of me to ask this question as a shortcut to information. My time

is limited and I'm unable to spend time researching my questions. Granted, this also describes everyone.





Take Care



Tim
 

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'84 CX650E that is evolving into a GL500
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Looking at the Clutch section of the GL500 & GL650 FSM (1981 edition): It becomes apparent from the pictures on p.7-4 and 7-6 that Honda calls the parts with friction material "clutch discs" and the ones that are plain steel "clutch plates". The picture on p.7-6 shows that there are 5 of "disc A" and one "disc B" and that the disc B has wider lugs. The blowup drawing on 7-6 and the lower pic on 7-4 identify the plate with the wavy spring as "plate B" so the plain plates must be A.



The discs should be measured for thickness and the plates only need to be checked for warpage. The table on p.7-1 gives the values to check, including:



spring free length: 33.9mm



Disc A thickness: standard 2.7mm, wear limit 2.3mm



Disc B thickness: standard 3.5mm, wear limit 3.1mm



Plate warpage: 0.20 maximum



The methods for checking the plates are in the book.



NOTE: Check the condition of the plate B carefully. The spring is not continuous, but rather several short pieces of spring riveted alternately to the steel plates. If any of the rivets are loose the plate must be replaced.



When the plate B in my GoldWing's clutch failed a few years ago the clutch became almost unusable. As the springs moved around between the plates, sometimes it would feel like the cable was too tight and other times I couldn't pull the lever in far enough to disengage the clutch. Within about 20 Km the rivets chewed off almost all of the friction material from the discs on either side of the plate B.



I was lucky. It happened when I was on my way home from work and I was able to fix it with the plate B and the best two disc As from my spare engine.



I seem to recall someone replacing the plate B with something that didn't have the spring, but I can't remember whether it was here or on Naked GoldWings and I can't remember what they used (maybe a plate A, but it wouldn't be thick enough by itself so I'm not sure.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for your reply Sidecar Bob: As I review everything I think I understand my point of confusion. And, it is the picture of the clutch and clutch parts on page 24-21 83 ADDENDUM the Honda Manual. It labels Clutch Plate B (6PCS) and arrow does point to a clutch plate.The error is in the next heading. It is labeled Clutch Disk A ( 6 PCS) and the arrow points again to a Clutch PLATE and not a Disk. Soooo... by their illustration BOTH A and B are shown as PLATES. I will correct the error and re- drawing the arrow for Clutch Disc A ( 6 PCS) one position to the rear, then it will be pointing to a DISK and not to what is in reality CLUTCH PLATE #4. I've also done a little review and it seems only when an engine produce's over a certain amount of Horse Power does the manufacture concern themselves with plate wear. My 82 Suzuki 1100 as well as Kawasaki 1500 Lists clutch plate wear limits. My other six bikes that are less in HP. only give Warp tolerance. Also, thank you for added info on Clutch Plate B with wave spring, and looking for loose rivets. And spring not being continuous. By trade I am an Aircraft Navigation and Comm. Tech. With back up power systems as a side line. Mistakes are not uncommon in our TI books and standards. Seems strange Honda would have one in their manual. I am grateful you stayed with me until I noticed the error, and then could correct it and have things fall into place for me. My trade has taught me, If something does not make sense to study and review until my error or information error is found and corrected. Some who view themselves as an authority choose to respond with do as I say to do, with no room for discussion or expression for point of confusion. Which does not help my learning curve in my much loved hobby, or the next person that comes across the same incorrect material.



Take Care



Tim
 

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'84 CX650E that is evolving into a GL500
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As I review everything I think I understand my point of confusion. And, it is the picture of the clutch and clutch parts on page 24-21 83 ADDENDUM of

the Honda Manual. It labels Clutch Plate B (6PCS) and arrow does point to a clutch plate.The error is in the next heading. It is labeled Clutch Disk A (6 PCS)

and the arrow points again to a Clutch PLATE and not a Disk. Soooo... by their illustration BOTH A and B are shown as PLATES. I will correct the error by

re- drawing the arrow for Clutch Disc A ( 6 PCS) one position to the rear, then it will be pointing to a DISK and not to what is in reality CLUTCH PLATE #4.
You're absolutely right. I started with a 500 & learned about the clutches from the pages I quoted so I probably never looked at that pic closely enough to notice.
 

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650 clutches are hard to kill. The clutch cable does like to stretch out though.



Did you adjust the clutch cable at the bottom as well as at the top as the manual suggests that you should do? When the cable stretches it needs to be adjusted at both ends.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hey David: Yes I did adjust both top and bottom per manual. It's been about eight months ago so you made me pause and think to remember. It's good to know the clutch has a history of being hard to kill. Didn't know on the model if at 59000 how much clutch life was left. Even though it still has plenty of wear to go, have decided to remove and inspect anyway due to some clutch rattle when clutch pulled in and not in neutral. I'm now interested in Outer Guide OD, and ID measurements and Needle bearing wear. As well as checking slots on outer guide. Have you found any other causes for rattle??



Thanks



Tim
 

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'84 CX650E that is evolving into a GL500
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A rattle that often seems to come from the clutch area can be caused by out of adjustment valves or a camchain that is loose (mostly in 500s that need to have the camchain adjusted, but a 650 camchain that is near the end of its life can cause it too - I found out the hard way).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
New cam chain and triple bypass were completed about a year ago.Sorry you learned the hard way... I almost did myself. I had

talked myself into the thought that these engines are normally noisy with the long push rods and all.The noise did sound like

it was coming from the heads. When I removed the rear cover for other work found the classic cam chain sawing it's way through parts it should not normally be touching. After assembly, adjust valves, verify timing. hit start button and..... my jaw hit the floor. Absolutely no noise, just a very pleasant whir of the engine. And It's still that way. In fact it wasn't until the engine was so much quieter that the chatter from the clutch area became notable. So just wanting to find out why the rattle- chatter. It's not more than a mild nuisance. It's the very last thing, and if I find it I can then declare the bike, perfect.





Thanks



Tim
 
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