[Marshall]

I parked my 81 Custom a couple months ago to replace a gasket, and after I did so, my clutch wouldn't disengage. Everyone said it was probably because the mushroom head was out of place, but I was pretty sure I put it in right!



This is the clutch (duh!), but is there a piece there that I might be missing? Something that goes into this hole?

This is my clutch cover when the clutch is out and then when I pull the lever in. This all looks correct to me, any protips?

 

[cdyoung1985]

If it doesn't disengage, either the plates are stuck together due to oil suction so to speak, or they're fried and glued together, you have to take it apart and see if you can separate the plates cleanly, if they aren't nice and pretty, then you need to replace them

 

[cmerriman]

I'm in the same situation, all of that looks right to me. The only thing I can think of is that your clutch pack is dry and not separating. I took one out of a parts motor that I had lying around and mine won't disengage either. I just went ahead and ordered new friction disks and new springs. Hopefully everything goes back together and works next weekend.

 

[cmerriman]

CD, how do you know if they look nice and pretty? I've never seen new ones. My clutch was burned - I could smell it in the oil - but the disks looked fine to me except for friction material in the clutch basket.

 

[cdyoung1985]

I'm in the same situation, all of that looks right to me. The only thing I can think of is that your clutch pack is dry and not separating. I took one out of a parts motor that I had lying around and mine won't disengage either. I just went ahead and ordered new friction disks and new springs. Hopefully everything goes back together and works next weekend.

Have you torn into it? I'm pretty sure you need the metal ones too, from my past clutch issues, not engaging, you need just the friction plates, not disengaging, the whole thing is either shot, or there's so much oil between the plates that they are suctioned together, you might be able to just separate them and put it back together. If the plates are overly oiled they'll stick, if they're under oiled they won't engage and will fry quickly, you want to soak them for at least a few hours, then let them drip dry so they aren't dripping anymore, then put it together, and make sure the metal plates still have bumps on them to help grab the friction plates...

 

[cmerriman]

I had it apart 3 times the other night. I didn't know at the time to lubricate the plates (I'm an auto mechanic- you don't soak the clutch. lol). So, I just ordered the new friction plates. I didn't know to look for bumps on the metal plates, so I will look when I go to put it together this weekend. If the clutch was burnt in my bike, do you think the friction plates is all that is damaged? meaning, do you think the metal plates will be ok to use?

 

[cdyoung1985]

CD, how do you know if they look nice and pretty? I've never seen new ones. My clutch was burned - I could smell it in the oil - but the disks looked fine to me except for friction material in the clutch basket.

If they're "pretty" then they have nice squares, if it's fried, they'll be rather smooth, the metal disks should be clean, if they aren't completely clean, I'd replace them, hell if you can afford it, then I'd do it anyway, the springs SHOULD be good, but for a few more bucks you can be sure. I'll take some pictures of disks that were good, used, but it held up well so you can see decent plates, if it's completely fried you'll know right away, it'll be completely smooth, if it's stuck then they'll be torn up when you're pulling them apart, and it won't be easy to separate them either. You might want to try just adjusting the cable first to be safe, it might just not be adjusted properly, and it could save you a bunch of money and time. For the gasket, I used permatex and it worked just fine, you could use cereal boxes, heard of that to, never tried it though.....



BE CAREFUL PUTTING THE 4 BOLTS INTO THE STUDS, I'VE BROKEN 2 OF THEM OFF EASILY!!!

 

[cmerriman]

Well, let's get back to Marshall's problem - cause mine is the same. He hasn't had his apart, and my clutch disks looked "pretty" (meaning I could see all the squares and lines in the friction material). Mine and Marshall's will still not disengage. I have adjusted my clutch cable all the way - both ways - and it doesn't make any difference. Now, Marshall can't get his disengaged either. Is there something else we should be doing when we put the cover back on? Mine moves in and out just like his pictures show. Are you supposed to turn the shaft a full rotation and put pressure on the spring before you put the mushroom in and put the cover on? I could see it giving more pressure, but it won't move any further than it does now. I'm still stumped, not only on mine, but on his! Is his just dry?

 

[Marshall]

I'm almost positive they aren't fried together, it ran smooth as butter before I parked it to change a gasket for a massive oil leak. And for the suctioned together... Well I just changed the oil on it, did it correct, just like I had done many times before with the same oil, don't see a reason for it to happen now! Might just reassemble it and hope it's a workings

 

[cdyoung1985]

Also look in the manual to see exactly how it all goes back together, there's a sharp edge and a rounded edge on the metal plates, and there are what look like pinholes that are rough to the touch, also there's a metal plate that's a double, and I believe a couple of the disks aren't the same as the rest, I think there are a couple that are a different diameter, also some are squared some are cross hatched or angled.



You can't really spin the part the cable spins a full rotation, you COULD, but it wouldn't be easy, and there's no need.



Have you tried putting the bike on the center stand, revving the engine a bit, hitting the clutch and putting it in gear? I know if a bike doesn't go into neutral easily revving the engine to say 1500 will put enough power to make it "slip" so you can hit neutral.



If you put a new clutch together without pre-soaking it, then I'd take it apart now, soak it for at least a few hours, set the plates vertically to let the excessive oil drip from them, then put it together again.



When you put the cover on, the push rod type thing will go down almost all the way, it shouldn't go flush, it should raise SLIGHTLY when the bar is at it's normal horizontal resting place when the bike is put together. Also double check the order the disks go into the clutch pack, might not seem important where the double metal disk goes, or where the cross hatch friction plates go, but it is all very important, even which side of the metal disk faces which way can affect things...



I can't tell you the proper order, it was a year ago I took it apart, and I didn't pay attention then, but it's all covered in the free manual I'm sure

 

[cdyoung1985]

I'm almost positive they aren't fried together, it ran smooth as butter before I parked it to change a gasket for a massive oil leak. And for the suctioned together... Well I just changed the oil on it, did it correct, just like I had done many times before with the same oil, don't see a reason for it to happen now! Might just reassemble it and hope it's a workings

I went to look at one for a girl I know, guy said it ran just fine, no issues, go ahead and take it for a test ride, I jump on, fire it up, grab the clutch, kick it in gear, it jerked and stalled, tried it a few times, adjusted the cable on both ends, same result, finally tore it apart, and it was stuck together and all of it was shot. He was truly surprised, or he's a damn good actor, but the friction plates were stuck to the metal ones so bad he had to replace the whole thing before I could test it out.....



There are likely other things, but I just know what I've experienced, bald friction plates means that you put it in gear and can't go anywhere.



I don't think you can make the plates stick from just an oil change, it's when you take it apart and put it together, or if it's dry for long I think it seizes up. Also a dry clutch that's just been put together could stick due to the pressure squeezing them together, and the lack of lube to help them separate, also the oil putting more pressure on the outsides making it harder to separate?



I don't claim to be a pro, a genius, or anything other than someone who's had crap happen to 2 and 4 wheel vehicles and have had to fix them. Never taken a car to a shop and had someone else fix it, I've taken it to a shop, but it's my best friends, and he lets me get free oil changes and I get his price on parts, so I pay $40 for a $100 some set of plug wires, or $40 for ceramic brake pads and new rotors etc, if I can't fix it, it aint worth fixing on a $500 or less car....





PS sorry if you guys reply while I'm replying, I usually take a while to type, and don't always refresh before posting, doesn't help having my friend and her 2 kids staying here, the 1 yr old loves sitting on my lap and either pulling my hands from the keyboard or pushing whatever buttons she can, so I'm usually replying to the post before my latest reply lol

 

[cmerriman]

Thanks CD, hopefully you will be around this weekend in case I have any questions. I'm still a little concerned about the orientation of the each individual disk, but hopefully I can figure it out. Marshall, sorry to hijack your thread! If you need any help, I will be doing the same thing this next weekend - maybe we can figure it out together.

 

[cdyoung1985]

Always willing to TRY to help lol, my mistakes often help others... If I knew our clutches better I'd help more, but I've only replaced the friction plates on a rebel 450 and taken ours apart, and swapped the entire clutch baskets. The Rebel was 2 yrs ago, and I took ours apart last year, and have all the parts, but not in the right order, and 2 of the studs are broken on my extra basket lol



Hopefully my many ramblings have helped, and I also hope that your clutches aren't in worst case scenario's, hard to say, could be something I haven't even mentioned or been through. One thing I know is that you don't want to use full synthetic oil in our bikes or often it will make the clutch start to slip, which will QUICKLY lead to it's demise, that's what happened to the Rebel, learned that the hard way when going job hunting and 1 hr from home, thank God for good friends, and the Rebel had a wet clutch and is much the same as what we have in our bikes.



I suggest while having the clutch out, clean whatever you can, make sure there isn't sludge or anything not looking good and what not, it wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the entire front cover to check the oil pump, I'm planning on doing it to my bike soonish, didn't do it to my GL650, got 5 miles, and the engine was basically blown, after spending a full week building it 1/2 assed to make it run, then tearing it down, and doing it right for a run from the forum, though I ended up with 3 stitches and taking it for a test run the day after our run, it's a learning experience, and I picked the bike up for cheap stripped to the frame, and will make a pretty penny over time by parting it out. So I'm quite familiar with the CX500 being that I've stripped them down and built them up a couple times, and I know how to make the GL650 work at least, and I know things to watch for.....



Many people have learned from my mistakes, and many others have lived through my mistakes after hearing about them and ignoring them lol, but a mistake is a learning experience, and hopefully keeps others from making the same ones lol

 

[SteveinPA]

It is pretty normal for the clutch plates to stick together after sitting for an extended period of time.Start the motor in neutral, pull the clutch lever in and hold it while the bike warms up and the oil circulates. Then with the rear brake on hard drop it into first, giving it some gas to keep it from stalling. Work the lever in and out a few times. Usually all it takes is to clunk it into first while sitting on the bike and giving it some gas during the clunking part. this is with the clutch lever pulled of course. If that fails you may have another issue,

 

[cmerriman]

Well, went out this morning and put bike on center stand. Put it in neutral and let the bike warm up to operating temp. Clutch finally disengaged after some adjusting. While on the stand, I can pull in clutch and the wheel slows and then stops and can apply rear brake with no hesitation to the engine. Now, I am hearing a little bit of a clunking noise from the rear drive while in gear. I'm assuming this problem is what caused my clutch to burn out in the first place. The only thing I did, before all this happened, is change out the rear wheel from one Silverwing to the other.



What should I look for when I pull the rear wheel? Should I cycle through the gears without the wheel on and see if I hear the same sound? Is there any way to overtighten the rear wheel and cause a problem? Any insight would help - I am going to work on it tonight when it is cooler.

 

[cdyoung1985]

Have you checked or changed the final drive oil? I think a clunk would be more likely in the final drive than in the wheel itself, not sure of anything in the wheel that would clunk, it might not sound good if the bearings are shot, but it shouldn't clunk, course nothing should clunk lol, but I'd think it's more the final drive...



Is there a spacer in between the final drive and the wheel? The clunk might be the wheel moving further in the final drive than it should, really don't know if it can, but I know the spacer can fall out of place, it might even be rattling around causing a strange clunking sound.



I just had a strange feeling in the rear end the other day after some good hard riding, I think it's my final drive needing fresh oil, I've owned the bike for the 2nd year now, and I think it sat for a year before that, and no clue what the PO did to it..... Put it on the center stand after getting back, and went through the gears, gave it some gas and put my ear somewhat close to the final drive, and heard something I don't think I should've heard..... More of a grinding, with a slight clunk

 

[cmerriman]

Might sound stupid, but how do you drain the final drive oil and what type do you use? I've never really messed with that end of the bike. Also, I don't recall seeing a spacer between the final drive and the wheel - only the bearing. Also, BikeBandit's breakdown shows a retainer holding the bearing in the wheel - I didn't have a retainer holding the bearing in. I remember, because I had to push the bearing in and somewhat hold it.

 

[cdyoung1985]

It's hypoid gear oil, not sure how much, I think it's like the oil in the rear differential of a car, where you open a hole up and stick your finger in, if you don't have to dig to deep to feel it, there's enough



Just checked the manual, it says to pull the inspection plate, which is the mid plate, it should be full to the lower edge of the hole, with SAE 90 gear oil if it's above 41 degrees, 80 if it's below, it holds 5.7 OZ, or 170 CC



It's section 2-3 in the free manual assuming you have it, and looked in the addendum section for the 81 at least, and it says that you should check the oil every other oil change, replace every 22k miles.



BTW these references are from the CX, but the final drive unit is the same for all of the bikes I believe even the 650 uses the same as all the 500's, not positive...

 

[Shep]

It doesn't take much and don't be tempted to get more in as it can blow the drive box seals.



I use 80w90 hypoid gear oil as embossed on the drive box(My supermarkets carry it even).With the bike on the center stand,flat ground undo the small 10mm drain bolt and let drain and replace.Then squeeze enough oil in to overflow the 17mm inspection cover,just.Then put the 17mm cover back on.Do NOT over-tighten any of these as they are low torque.





HTH

PS

I add a bit of Moly to mine,



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Genu...2619247QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[Randall-in-Mpls]

The only thing I did, before all this happened, is change out the rear wheel from one Silverwing to the other.

Did you lube the drive splines with a proper molybdenum disulphide grease? Do it every time your remount the rear wheel.





R