[MGTWISTED81]

I am looking for experiences, opinions, recommendations, and information regarding manual cam chain tensioner parts for my 1981 GL500. I recently began accumulating parts for a triple bypass. I bought a NOS OEM tensioner blade part # 14500-415-010 from an EBAY seller thinking OEM would be the best way to go. This part number is very early in the part number supercession chain, so it has probably been sitting on a shelf for many years. I am concerned that the rubber may have deteriorated over time. I have now found David Silver and other sellers offering aftermarket reproduction parts. The OEM blade I bought looks fine, is flexible, and shows no sign of cracking. Am I better off using the OEM part or should I go with reproduction ? If repro is the way to go, can anyone recommend a quality source ?

Thanks, Mark

 

[nolimitz]

I've bought a few from DSS with no issues.

 

[murrayf]

use the oem one

i for one am not impressed and dont use dss guides i have opened a few engines within 6 month of installing them and found them not looking good

i let dss know and there answer was " they were past the warranty time and there was nothing they could or would do"

 

[CXPHREAK]

Yes. I remember Izaks experience with the auto tensioner guide he used.

I have concerns about the DS parts I used in my manually tensioned Ozdeluxe motor and will be pulling the rear cover for a look before I fit it to the bike. {it's still in my test bike}.

 

[fsj]

use the oem one

i for one am not impressed and dont use dss guides i have opened a few engines within 6 month of installing them and found them not looking good

i let dss know and there answer was " they were past the warranty time and there was nothing they could or would do"

I've used DSS guides. I've used what he had in stock which I think are the aftermarket ones. I also have had a buzz in the engine since changing the cam chain and guides using DSS parts. Could there be a link here? Could the DSS parts be inferior enough that they cause my engine to start to buzz at around 4k rpm and up?

 

[murrayf]

what i observed is that the material on the guides starts to swell with contact with the oil

i have done no testing on the tension blade attached to the adjuster for strength or rigidity

unfortunately i have to say it is a possibility the timing chain moves in a sinusoidal movement of waves that come

from the valve springs compressing and releasing as the valves open and close

so..... i can see if the guide that puts tension directly on the chain was flexing (i can see this clearly in my head ) it could

pass a vibration into the tension arm thru the spring a use the tin guide support plate as a sounding board

if you were near me i would change it under the (curious minds need to know act) for you

if you want to go look send me a pm and i will send you some good used guides and some gaskets

to support the "curious minds need to know act"

it would have to be a strength issue in the metal imparting a harmonic vibration you can feel

rather than time softening the material IF the vibration started when you changed it

i want the removed guides for testing i will pay shipping fees to get them cuz as you know "curious minds need to know"

 

[CXPHREAK]

My Ozdeluxe motor has developed a 'camchainy' noise over the last 1200 km {actually 3,045 - how time and miles fly when you're having fun} or so in the test bike - mostly when cold. It has been adjusted at least 6 or 7 times in that period, including the initial settling down adjustments. It's muted and dull though, not an out and out rattle.

While I have seen nothing in the oil {it stays clean} or filter during oil changes or when peering into the dipstick hole with a torch {flashlight} I have noticed a little black residue clinging to the dipstick whe checking the oil. I suspect it is the plasticised coating from the blade.

I think this motor was built with one genuine Honda and one DS tensioner/guide. I think the DS one is the guide but at this point I'm not sure.

I will pull the back cover for a look when I finally get it out of the test bike.

This motor was mechanically silent {it has NOS cam, upper rockers and new 650 pattern rocker pins as well as new bearings throughout} when assembled.

Not thrilled.

 

[murrayf]

cxphreak

do you think you can see the guide do you have one of those cameras ? would be nice to know if the swelling was visible

i spoke to davids manager over this issue and was shocked at his response

 

[CXPHREAK]

No, I don't have one of those USB cameras Murray and would love a peek at the parts myself. I guess it'll have to wait until I swap out this motor. Have been trying to find time to build the next motor on the block but may at this point just refit the motor that belongs to this bike. The Ozdeluxe motor was really only meant to be in it for around 1000 km as bed in and shakedown.

DS manager in denial? You're lucky to have these at all.....? We did you a favour ?

 

[murrayf]

so i sent a email with the issue and pictures to david silvers who passed it to nic the guy in charge of sales

who only wanted izaks customer order number

he then stopped communicating with me and the Maculay replied directly to issac a s follows

"
I’m afraid due to being out of warranty we are unable to cover the return cost/or be able to give any refund or credit, however if you want us to have a look at this and forward the part onto our suppliers we will need the cam chain guide here.

Apologies for any inconvenience.

Kind Regards
Macaulay

Sales team
David Silver Spares "

here are some pictures the same ones i sent after i had izak send me his guides and replaced them to izak with a set of oem ones i had at no charge to him

these guides were in izaks bike for less than 6 months and 3k miles

View attachment 16 08 2017 312.JPG

View attachment 16 08 2017 315.JPG

View attachment 16 08 2017 321.JPG

View attachment 16 08 2017 324.JPG

this has changed the way i think of dss and what and how i buy and has forced me to start the process of getting these parts engineered to come up with proper specs so i can get bids and

have good ones made i have seen 4 sets like this so far hope yours dont look like this

one more thing in some degree of fairness

by the time i sent the pictures to nic 2 years had gone by since izak bought them then installed them then drove the bike

then had to take the motor out then replaced them and sent them back here to me to take these picture

REAL CURIOUS TO SEE SOME OTHERS

and i hate to be the dick that asks but do the black bits in your oil look more familiar now cxphreak?

 

[CXPHREAK]

Duck, dodge, parry, thrust, weave.

 

[murrayf]

daffy duck at his finest

 

[murrayf]

so when you see the tension blade and how its ground down to nothing do the black bits in your oil make more sense?

 

[murrayf]

hmm i understand the non instant reply i would be out in the shed pulling my motor out to

im real curious to see if any of it is in the sump screen i zak never did get to pulling his front cover

before he passed away

 

[nolimitz]

are you seeing this issue with both manual and auto style blades and tensioners? I haven't noticed any black bits in oil on either bike. Will be doing oil changes today and will double check. thanks for the heads up

 

[SteveH]

So what is the current bottom line? I want to replace the cam chain and tensioners, and clutch for that matter on my GL before too many more miles. What are good sources? Can we still get oem blades? Are they 40 years old? Are DSS chains oem quality? All good questions, right? thanks for your thoughts on the matter

 

[murrayf]

no problems for the chains they are made by borg warner same as oem

no new guides re use your old ones if the material is still flexible

until we check some more i would not and am not using dss guides

 

[SteveH]

Thanks Murray, I'll get around to opening it up one of these these days and see what it actually needs. Meanwhile I have my CX pretty much done and will be using that as the weather warms up.

 

[CXPHREAK]

There are no 'bits' as such Murray, just a black residue on the dipstick which is something I've not seen before in otherwise clean oil. The closest description I could give is perhaps soot which doesn't appear to stay in suspension in the oil. I'll get a photo today. I don't see anything looking in the dipstick hole either. The bottom of the motor still looks clean too. My dipstick in this motor is steel, not plastic too. As weird as it sounds, could the plasticised material somehow be magnetic?

 

[nolimitz]

changed oil in two GL's today. saw no black bits. Our DSS blades predate Izak's trouble by a year or so.