[nolavox]

Last Thursday night a friend and I went out for a ride... My Cx has been running like a dream and then; shortly after my bike reached it's terminal operating temp, the Deuce started to cough and sputter a little bit on acceleration, clearing out eventually but running a bit rough. Visions of Bad Coils and fouled plugs filled my head. After a break to let things cool off, check the obvious, and to speculate as to why a bike running perfectly one day would suddenly act as if it had been possesed by Satan's mechanic, we headed out for another attempt. This time things really started getting bizzare as If my ignition was completely intermittant. No power on take off or sometimes with a sudden burst of acceleration in turns. I limped home barely able to keep it running on one or the other cylinder. Backfiring and sputtering all the way... rolling through stop signs, just to keep rolling as she wanted to kill...



My Bud said he thought I was lean, I smelled "rich" ( I knew my left side had some past issues in the fuel management dept (i.e. leaky boot) ... a quick inpection of the plugs revealed nothing obvious, they both looked perfect. At this point, I was seeing all of the forums past threads about pulling motors, replacing seals, blown cooling fans, bad temp guages, .. and wondering if I had not floated a valve on one of my past the red line excursions sending a con rod out through the top or maybe breaking a knibbler pin deep in the dark neither regions of the motor... I was "worried" to say the least.





To make a long story short (r) I have spent the last few days pouring over the shop manny, this forum, Sheps forum, Randakks and anywhere else I thought might help... I even almost posted a WTF "guess what's wrong" thread yesterday. I replaced my fusible link and the fuse on the relay/ switch ground. ( light green, black stripe on 82's). Re did my main ground, checked the starter and kill switch for continuity, god rid of the resistors in my plug wires and changed plugs that were almost new... Went through the airbox, checked for leaks... som other things I can't remember like the choke operation and petcock... I think I may have even replaced the air in the tires.

nothing seemed to change anything...the bike hardly wanted to start... I was crestfallen... Fuzzy Visions of helplessly emptying my wallet into a mechanical vortex danced in my head. I wanted to drink.

Yesterday after reading the "long distance cx" thread, all six pages. I was re-inspired by the self reliant "go get em" attitude shown by so many here. (thanks Y'all) I was not going to let this deuce be-devil me into submission. Then,,, I realized. The only change I had made between the bike running well and the appeance of it's evil turd brother the next day was that I had added about 3/4 of a tank of new fuel from one of my ethanol free containers, or so I thought... Just for a lark, I hooked the patient up the bench fuel IV bottle. And dang nabbit damm sho nuff I had put bad fuel into my tank. She ran like it was 8 days before all this. I dumped the tank of whatever, put in new E free 87.... and zooooooom.



I figure one of these days, it WILL be more serious... Maybe a flebostat, or johnson rod replacement. until then, I must go write on the blackboard 496 times...



Even if it is all simple stuff, Check the simple stuff first... especially the simple stuff I might screw up... and go label the fuel containers.



From Area 51, 52.... whatever it takes.

Vox!

 

[lucky]

glad you got it figured out bro

 

[Blindstitch]

Bad gas will screw you every time.



My brother and I just got done putting on a set of Larry carbs and took the bikes for a quick run. 10 miles out he tells me he needs gas as he hits reserve so we head back to the local family owned Citgo gas station. After filling up both bikes his did a lot of spitting and mine was acting up to. He barely got home on his tank of gas which was 2.2 gallons of this crap. I only added a gallon so I was till sitting pretty.



After running the tank dry I ended up with about 30mpg max when I was averaging 46. My brother didn't even get that far. Since he was visiting he loaded the bike up on the trailer and towed it home. I told him how my mpg was and he drained his tank and put in new. His lawnmower didn't even like this crap.

 

[goodsteel53]

Good for you Nolavox! You stayed in there, thought about it, and figured it out!

 

[marshallf3]

I don't know who to write down there but do it, and I don't mean just your congressmen but the local petroleum society.



This crap has got to stop.



It's very possible we'll have a major ice storm here within the next few weeks and while I'm armed with a rather impressive chain saw in the trunk of my car to help, inculding the means to take a break and sharpen the chain as I go when needed, it won't hit "Freddy Kruger" so to speak unless it has real gas and oil. I can tweak on he carbs all I want but it simply won't won't hit a full power job on E10 gasoline - needs the real stuff and prefer at least midgrade.



Here I sit with the nornal running operation of about 25 HP in my hands, if I'm reduced to 15 I'm far laible to kickback.



That can be the difference between my hurting myself in an emergergency situation and actually be good at operating this beast I've owned for so many years. I'm used to it, only loaned it out to one other twice who was a big guy and he still can't believe what it will eat (took him a while) but as with our bikes I end to buy the best.



Note on anything but a pro: You better be able to handle what you've got. Some are as powerful as our engines in s lightweight handheld form thus ATTGATT willl apply here but there's a lot more to learn. A small teee trimmer is fine, common sense will take care of that. A real chain saw - regardless of if it just makes noise or is built to take on challenges - is perhaps the most dangerous tool you can own.



They sound cool, they're a lot of fun, but one tiny knot in a piece piece of wood can deflect them tight into your leg. I'm experienced enough to know better, but I was trained and it's a rariy I'll cut withought help around to load the stuff up. Fair is fair.

 

[nolavox]

I have to agree that E fuel is crap... especially for high strung two stroke motors like those in the Chain Saws, blowers and weed wackers I've been fixing this year. There is nothing wrong with any of them other than deteiorated fuel lines, gunked up carbs, fouled plugs, rusting sleeves and a bunch of other fuel related issues... If I kept an emergency saw that I did not use regularly, I'd leave it and the fuel seperate until ready to use it. Seems like two weeks with E fuel in the tank, and many of these two strokes will not start without re-fueling anyway.



All that said: My problem was not the ethanol fuel... it was me. I had recently bought two 2.5 gallon and one 5. fuel containers. ( brand new 10$... I could not pass up the deal as the new spill "safe" containers are another thread in themselves)



I mixed up these new ones with an older one that I'm pretty sure had e fuel I had drained from ? and was intending to donate to my ex... some of it probably had 25% two stroke oil in it. Not as bad as the time I put Diesel in a bike by mistake though...



After Katrina I ended up with at least ten (maybe 20) different fuel containers. Most are flushed and stored in the rafters with the space alien(s) That's a longer story.... bottom line, I need to be more organized at area 51...





whatever it takes! ';-) J



PS where do I find a 50hp chainsaw ?

 

[nolavox]

Bad gas will screw you every time.



My brother and I just got done putting on a set of Larry carbs and took the bikes for a quick run. 10 miles out he tells me he needs gas as he hits reserve so we head back to the local family owned Citgo gas station. After filling up both bikes his did a lot of spitting and mine was acting up to. He barely got home on his tank of gas which was 2.2 gallons of this crap. I only added a gallon so I was till sitting pretty.



After running the tank dry I ended up with about 30mpg max when I was averaging 46. My brother didn't even get that far. Since he was visiting he loaded the bike up on the trailer and towed it home. I told him how my mpg was and he drained his tank and put in new. His lawnmower didn't even like this crap.

interesting coinkydink...



I also went for the petcock first. then opened the cap and found a pretty full tank.





P.S. I guess they have bigger trees and saws elsewhere... Marshallf3, you could just get one of these V8 babies and drive it as well as saw it. (insert sarcasim smiley icon here)



http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/3woodsaws/stihlms200bigsaw.jpg

 

[lucky]

PS where do I find a 50hp chainsaw ?

hows about a stihl 880mag?? on that saw you can run atleast a 36 inch bar and not worry.........(i am a certified small engine tech i have most of my certs for stihl) all my 2 stroke stuff as been stihl i swear by them well enough of me trying to sell you on stihl........

 

[lucky]

PS where do I find a 50hp chainsaw ?

hows about a stihl 880mag?? on that saw you can run atleast a 17 inch bar to a 59 inch bar and not worry.........(i am a certified small engine tech i have most of my certs for stihl) all my 2 stroke stuff as been stihl i swear by them well enough of me trying to sell you on stihl........

 

[nolavox]

Hi Lucky, Hope you are feeling well these days.



I'm not sure but I have assumed that Stihls number names relate to their horsepower rating... I don't think the 880 is over ten HP anyway. I do know it will swing a 50 something inch bar which might be kind of tough to carry all the time in a car.



I've spent years (at least a week) with Jennings "two stroke tuners handbook" in my lap. Tuned Pipes all over the bench and broken pieces parts from trying to make more juice from little poppers

Tourque being relative to HP, It's tough to comprehend a 25-50 hp motor with enough torque at optimal rpm in a chainsaw that most humans could pick up... it would probably displace 100cc or more, weigh at least 80 lbs motor alone... and this would have to be made of unobtainum, use alchohol and nitromethane or other exotic fuels with light oil and a tuned pipe to see this kind of performance... yes ALCHOHOL!

... I don't think a chainsaw with a sweet spot starting at 15k rpm would be too practical from a noise or reliability standpoint... More likley, it would be a 250, and weigh about 200lbs++

dry...



I think MarshallF3 might have been tired when he posted at 2:21 in the AM "OKie from muskogee" time

( please take no offence, none intended)



yes chainsaws are dangerous, just not that powerful in the HP dept. they are not racing vehicles and don't need that much umph to get the blade moving with torque enough to cut. I do certainly agree that hitting a knot while unbalanced, out of control or unaware, just like a sudden weight shift, throttle pull and sudden brake application on a motorcycle in a turn can highside a bike, it can send the blade "high side" as well

I must agree, and think probably the most dangerous thing one can do beyond drinking and driving is operating a chainsaw while drunk or even just fatigued.



I figure one day soon, just like racers, the lawn guys, forestry and tree trimmers will be buying 5 gallon jugs of "$pecial" fuel...



Yeah Bud... I'm a stihl man also... when they run right, they really do run BTW I use a Stihl MS 250 w a 20" bar for most things as I'm not a lumberjack, it kicks my butt after a couple hours. I might be good for ten minutes with An 880



Peace Out... y'all have a goood day, Vox

 

[lucky]

wow a ms 250 why not upgrade to the 310?? an a 880 is one hell of a saw i had one until needed the money and gave it away at 100 bucks when they cost new around 1,659 and thats only with a 21 inch bar.....but any way the 310 has a comfert handle which makes long jobs really easy

 

[Gene McCall]

I won't defend the ethenol gas, especially since it takes more energy overall to make the stuff than we save. All I can share is my experience with the stuff. I have run it in both bikes, the 650 & the ST1100 and have not encountered any problems. It may have reduced the HP available but I just have not been in any situation recently where I had to ask the bikes for more grunt than was delivered. In other words, I can't tell any difference but then I am not the best wrench in the toolbox! I no longer do any work on my bikes but my Honda mech. keeps them running great.

Gene

 

[RVP3]

So should I be looking for non-ethanol gas? Been out of the loop for awhile. Thanks.

 

[marshallf3]

It's either a Stihl or Poulan sold unnder the Craftstman name ages ago as a one time deal. I've had many but not one that operated as well as this one does. I think it will take a 24" bar but I only need an 18" which is what I've got on it.



As with model RC engines the HP comes from the sheer rpm.

 

[nolavox]

I won't defend the ethenol gas, especially since it takes more energy overall to make the stuff than we save. All I can share is my experience with the stuff. I have run it in both bikes, the 650 & the ST1100 and have not encountered any problems. It may have reduced the HP available but I just have not been in any situation recently where I had to ask the bikes for more grunt than was delivered. In other words, I can't tell any difference but then I am not the best wrench in the toolbox! I no longer do any work on my bikes but my Honda mech. keeps them running great.Gene

My bike runs well on E gas As well...

maybe a slight noticeable lack of umph but I at least do not have knocking or detonation issues...

I think we are Ok at 10:1 compression... although a bit of head milling and upping the compression ratio might help to get back to book HP numbers...(impractical for most)

My larger concern is it's hygroscopic nature (it absorbs or binds with H2o)

and its deteriorating effects on certain rubber parts. I've heard it suggested to soak hoses and seals in Ethanol for a couple days to see if it is rotting your particular machines rubber.

also impractical.



All that aside about ethanol... even pure gas six months old is "bad" gas My biggest concern is ME NOT screwing up again, and putting my own stored, unlabeled, salad dressing in my motor(s)

 

[nolavox]

It's either a Stihl or Poulan sold unnder the Craftstman name ages ago as a one time deal. I've had many but not one that operated as well as this one does. I think it will take a 24" bar but I only need an 18" which is what I've got on it.



As with model RC engines the HP comes from the sheer rpm.

Hi Marshall,



These are a couple applications where a lightweight motor without tons of torque will do the job. I;'m sure it's dissapointing to have your ol' faithul saw acting up because of alchoholic fuel... At last it's not a 64 goat big block bumped to 13:1 looking for amaco leaded 105

The magic # is 5252.1311.... this will be another topic

J

 

[marshallf3]

Nada to do with the octane, it pure btu content. If it didn't cost so much I'd keep a gallon of 5% RC stuff in my trunk and try that.



No matter, we've got plenty of 100% good (and bad) gas around here.



Thinking about changing bar oil from what I've been using, any suggestions?

 

[lucky]

what kind of bar oil are you using now?



i also did like stihl bar and chain oil

 

[marshallf3]

Basically just generic stuff from Wal Mart or Sears which I think is just a straight 30W non-detergent oil, I think I might benefit from Rotella or that new Rotella synthetic? It's an automatic oiler with the option of manually kicking extra in.



Still going to the boat dealer and using Mercury Quicksilver in the engine.

 

[nolavox]

Ditto on the merc quicksilver for motor oil... For the bar, these days I mostly use "used" motor oil. It's a total loss use without much heat and I have assumed it's not that critical as long as the blades and bar are lubricated.



I'm compulsive about keeping my engine (s) oil changed and clean. If it looks good, it goes through an oil filter and into a 30 gallon drum. This "used" oil has been used for outdoors light and heat as well. I have also used the used peanut oil from the fry pan thinking at least it would not be like dumping motor oil onto the ground (toxic)... it stunk like a micky'd and made a mess... I don't think the chain cared though.



Before running pure alchohol. I'd change the fuel lines to silicone , up the size of the carb, Buy a jet kit, probably Mill the head to increase compression or conversely run more nitro and shim the head to lower compression, Mix the fuel to a 20:1 castor oil blend or less maybe much less as in 64: .05 , tune the exhaust Then again, I might find the redline before the forrest