[murrayf]

So, first the affirmation:

I think the CX500 and its 650 brothers are the greatest bikes around.
The 500 is one of the longest lasting motors made, and nearly impossible, without being silly, to kill.
There are a lot of examples of them being dug out of barns, fields, or basements, with very few to 10’s of thousands of miles put on them. Many of us have simply cleaned the carbs, changed the oil, done a high miles service, jumped on them and driven the crap out of for years.

Here is the rant:

There are some nice newer members on the forum who are from the "let’s take it all apart and put everything new into the motor so I won’t have problems later" school.

Now while that is fine if they feel they need to do this, they are welcome to do so. But here is an example that rubs the wrong way.
Recently, I got off the phone with a new member from Utah (who can chip in if he wants) that was going to ship me his motor for me to go through.
I asked him “how many miles on it”. “20k” says he. “Does it make any noises?” “Nope.” says he. “How does it run?” “Good” says he.

“Why are you sending it to me?”
…………………Because people on the forum tell him he should tear it all apart and go through everything……………

So I tell him his motor might need a triple, he says he has already done the mechanical seal and is going to adjust the timing chain.

i gently (and no offense here) told him that the people telling him it needed a complete tear down were also new to CX’s, and in fact, while there were quite a few that have their motors completely torn down, NONE HAVE YET TO GET THEM BACK TO A RUNNING STATE

Now while I have no doubts in the skills of these people, some of whom I have been helping, it belies why we all love our CX’s to think they need complete tear downs and inspections at low miles.

Do the service work, get on them, and ride!!!

Now, the advice to all………

Read the posts of people that you think you need to take direction and advice from. It’s like any other kind of shopping, look around! See what they have done, how long they have been doing it, and if it has been successful.

LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF POSTS a person has. You may not want to listen to someone as closely if that person only has 3 posts, compared to someone like blindstitch that has almost 15k.

Last of all, to new members……

We at this forum think these bikes are awesome, and we want to help anyone in the world keep them running. And we will all tell you that even though you don’t know what a crank shaft looks like, you can overhaul your motor yourself.

Now, while that may be possible, I can say it is not always true.

So, please…… research everything before you start, ask tons of questions, and read some more. Then make sure it’s something you want to tackle, and that you feel you have a high probability of doing right.

I buy 3-7 bikes a year off the forum that are apart, something is broken, and/or the whole project was abandoned by over-reaching.
There are many members here who will even come help. All you have to do is ask.
So if you are not sure you can rebuild your brakes, DONT DO IT! Ask for more help or get it done for you.

All right, I will shut up now!!

 

[Warriorguy]

You make very good points.I myself am guilty of jumping the gun tearing bike components down that didnt need to be tore down,if i would have just sat back and thought about it i would have saved myself a big headache.Murry you seem to be the highly thought of go to guys on this forum so im sure you hear this kind of stuff more than others,but you have to realize most people love to tinker i think its a human thing.LOL,but your correct tinkering is fine just know your limits.Look listen and learn and expant your limits and soon no job will be to big and you will know your bike inside and out.

 

[Kameron]

Nicely put

Thats all

 

[smilin' brad]

I agree mostly.
I really think the noobs should do lots more reading (do your homework) before you start asking lots of questions that have been asked and answered before.
The bikes that sell around here for less than maybe $2,000 are project bikes. Don't buy a $500 special and think you are going riding right away.
These bikes are amazingly well designed and built and are relatively easy to work on (for me) but I've been repairing my own stuff for about 50 years now. I may have more experience and tools than the average enthusiast.
If you are not sure you have the skills, find someone who does and expect to compensate them for their time.
I caught some crap for flaming on a noob that put no effort into resolving his own problems before dumping on this forum so maybe I'm a little sensitive but I'll always help someone who is making an honest effort and maybe got stuck.
The FSM is a wonderful thing. Use it!
Son & I did 3,000+ miles of high speed touring on my bikes last year, neither of which had received much in the way of serious prep and we had no trouble at all, not even a tip over.
Know your iron, do your homework & maintenance and Life will be good.
Murry and I don't need any more half done projects in our garages (or at least, I don't)

 

[Thumper]

When I joined this forum I had just got my first CX500C and since then have rebuilt: one CX500, one GL500, one GL650I, one CB700SC, and one CB750 engine, along with fixing all the other non-engine stuff on those bikes. How? With no experience? First off I like to tinker with stuff, probably the most important factor. But also, not being afraid to ask dumb questions and/or make dumb suggestions. And, being courteous to those helping me and not bugging them more than necessary. And, the FSM!!!! And, being willing to spend on some tools and testing equipment. Right now, after having done all that, I believe I can do anything. Forums are truly a miracle of technology in that you have the world's foremost experts on any given machine tripping over each other to answer your questions. If this modern miracle were not a reality, it would be in some science fiction book somewhere.

 

[purplecx500]

Thank You Murray

Wish I had said that.

I like riding what the point in getting a bike just to rip it up.

Pay hundreds if not thousands run out of money.

Guy I got my GL500's from was selling for a friend.

Before I found out about them several "Projects and parts bikes"

"Over a ton of metal sold by the pound" 3 rollers

Because the PO had to leave them.

We took home stacked higher than the cab.

2 complete bikes and 5 to 600 lbs of the "Best stuff" that was saved.

We looked like the Beverly Hillbillies going home. $600.

He didn't know or care what went just that all the blocks looked the same.

Can't tell you how many cheap or free "got in over my head" rescues I've done

It started in summer after my 6th grade 1963.

The only" human nature is that we destroy the things we intend to save"

Sometimes.

Our projects Road To Hell is Paved with Good Intention.

 

[AWK08]

I see this same thing on the ATV forums I frequent

one has the "use the search function - not this again" attitude, it also has a core group that frowns on newbies asking dumb questions and openly flames them for it.
it's membership/participation suffers from it bad, yet it's owner is too busy participating in the flaming to see the $ going down the drain

the forum I am staff on, is one of those with veteren members tripping over each other to answer any and all questions, no matter how dumb or even if it was the same question just asked an hour ago,
we are told almost daily that it is the best ATV forum out there.

remember....we all started at the bottom and asked those same dumb questions, if someone didn't answer them, we'd have bailed out of that forum and found somewhere that did want to help and participate.

just my .02

 

[Duanob]

Agreed! I am getting to that age where 'If it aint broke, don't "fix" it, but definitely maintain it'. Most of the things that really need fixing on an old bike are from lack of maintenance or just sitting, rarely needing the engine torn apart. There is absolutely no reason to tear a good running engine apart unless you plan on racing it and while I know these bikes are sacred on this board, it would be the last bike I would build for racing.

Of course if some fool wants to separate from his money at least you gave him heads up so you shouldn't feel too guilty Murry!

 

[timothy_d]

I'm a hybrid of Murray's statement.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, but . . . if you have to drop the engine and take the back cover off (for any reason), and you have more than 20k miles on the engine, Triple or Quadruple Bypass while you are in there so you never have to f*** with it again.

 

[izak]

Thanks murrayf for this very good professional advice . I am a rookie who also believes : " if it is not broken, do not (try to) mend it "

 

[63Coupe]

Well said Murray. I too am from the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" school, but maintain the hell out of it. Now, if you ever do have to go into the innards I also believe that that is the time to get ambitious and do it up right because you've got it opened up anyway.

As for the noobs, let's encourage them to ask questions no matter how stupid they may seem to be. I always say that there is no such thing as a stupid question just people who are too stupid to ask in the first place. Remember that we were all noobs at one time.

 

[CXPHREAK]

Where possible test.... not tear to bits.

 

[purplecx500]

I try not to flame for dumb questions....some times it could be taken as flaming

when the question seems creatively intentionally stupid.

Murray goes out of his way to answer dumb questions daily.

The point is to try and save those newbee's from following advice that could

lead to unnessay work and expense.

It seems that every time a new to this forum what should I do ?

Someone says first thing is strip it down pull the engine rip it apart and start fresh.

I have had newbee's PM me and say its too confuseing.

Is that really what I should do ?

How many times has someone said first do a compression test and a leak down.

The fact is compression tests and leak down tests are to locate and determine

why an engine is exhibiting a problem. They are diagnostic tools.

An engine may show low compression for reasons other than wear.

Example a CX500 with 19000mi of miles sit six years do a compression test

It will read low so that means..........................NOTHING.

For some reason some are convinced low compression means....OVERHAUL

Some say you will want to do a triple bypass and put on electric fan and Ignitec.

The last thing I want to do is pull an engine when its unnecessary.

I could pay license, insurance,all necessary repairs a tank of gas

and lunch up at the old cafe at the top of the mountain.

So lets all get on the same page don't just throw out what we would do.

There is room for opinion and conjecture teasing jokes etc....

But fact is.

Most questions have a right answer and answers that sound right to a newbee.

Lets be known for being a place to get the right answer not just a chat room

where there are so many opinions and miss information tossed about

that it confuses rather than clarifies.

 

[George in Indiana]

Considering these engines are good for well over 100K miles, it boggles the mind that some feel the need to tear them down at 20K miles. They're far more durable than most car engines from back then.
As mentioned, many get pulled apart without a hope of ever being put back together. I'd bet many are from the same group of guys who get emotional over brand of oil and 10% ethanol. By the time they read all the internet BS and myths, they get a generic definition in their mind that ---> motorcycle = AMF era Harley. The type of guy who couldn't properly do a valve adjustment if his life depended on it is now tearing down an engine for a complete overhaul. :stupid:

 

[CXPHREAK]

6 years ago my bike had 120 PSI compression per side. Last year it had 170. I've not had the heads off.

 

[tommy87]

Never had to tear one down never will unless it needs it maintain and ride most Hondas are bullet proof.

 

[LDunc]

What is a FORUM?

I'm sure you've all been waiting for, the NOOB, from Utah, to chime in....

What is the purpose of a Forum?

This is the first forum that I've been a member of, and can't say enough good things about it. I can also say that I have been reluctant as HELL to post anything here. I've learned that you're better off taking a week or two, to figure out your issue, rather than posting the same question that litters the search bar. Been there. Done that. Stayed away from questions for a while.
This morning as I was typing an email to Murray, I thought, "screw it, I'll just call him". That way he can ask me any question he needed to know, and be done with it.

Once I found out about Murray's carb kit, I bought one.
Quickest "jump start" to my project that I can think of.
Since it's been installed.... It was clear to me, what the hype of the CX500 was all about.
Shortly after carbs were installed, if I didn't turn off the fuel it would leak from the "pink tube"(as Murray called it). My entire garage smelled CRAZY ripe of petrol.
So... I was calling to see if Murray could help me, or if I needed to park the bike in an anti combustion chamber. He talked me through the issue with great care and knowledge.
(I knew he would) Murray was a great help. While I had him on the line, I wanted to ask him what he would charge me to go through my engine.

Is there any one on the forum that wouldn't love to give your bike to Murray, for even an hours worth of his undivided attention?

If you've ever had the privilege to chat with Murray, (without a retainer fee) he's got centuries of stories to go along with every question you ask. THIS IS WHY I CALLED HIM! All I needed, was a quick answer to my carb leak.

My bike is a tail light away from being street legal, and good to go for the summer. I want to take my time over the summer, to make sure everything is good to go, before I put the cherry on top. Next winter I plan on a complete repaint/powder coat/disassembly.

I plan on riding this bike all summer in the current condition. For the very reason " IF IT'S NOT BROKE, DON'T FIX IT". Who knows WTF it will do with a 40 mile commute on I-15, every day for work? Last summer, I rode to work a dozen times or so with no problems.

"If you're going to do it, do it right".

If I can dismantle the bike next winter, why not have the motor gone through before it's put back together? I value his opinion, so I asked the question.



He made sense to it all, and I got off the phone with him, thinking SWEET! maybe I don't need to go the distance.


It may be hard for some of the senior members to see the confusion that a lot of new members have, once they've scoured the Forum. I for one have spent a ton of time on here, with numerous searches. I don't want to produce a shitty finished product. This bike is as old as I am, and typically that means it needs some work.

Murray even made the comment to me, " These motors are bomb proof. A lot of guy's on the forum post a bunch stuff, when they haven't even completed a triple bypass. They still have their motor in pieces.

I have to admit... This thread threw me for a loop. I had to step back before jumping.

If I read correctly... Murray's, and a lot of your comments are referring to a bigger issue than my phone call.

Maybe the forum is treated similar to Facebook for some of the members, and they have to stick their nose in all of the "action". Even if they don't know, but they can change the oil, change the plugs, install a new fuel filter, and claim they did a proper coolant flush.

For the Senior Member's... Maybe they can't figure out why some one just asked, if anyone has ever removed the H-box,(for the billionth time) and if it's essential to good performance.

It's hard to know for some of the NOOB's, with ZERO mechanical experience. Obviously there is a lot of shit on here that can lead some people to think they need to "go big or go home"


Nothing about this post is meant to be militias what so ever.

I'm on this forum to learn.

I'm on this forum to help, if I can.


Not sure what the solution is.

Might just be a good reminder of PATIENCE.

 

[LDunc]

so first the affirmation

i think the cx500 and its 650 brothers are the greatest bikes around

the 500 is one of the longest lasting motors and impossible without being silly to kill

there are a lot of examples of them being dug out of barns and 10s of thousands of miles put on them

most of us have barn finds we have cleaned the carbs changed the oil done a high miles service jumped on

them and driven the crap out of the for years

here is the rant

there are some nice newer members on the forum who are from the "lets take it all apart and put everything new into the motor so i wont have problem later"

school

now while that is fine if they feel they need to do this they are welcome to but i just got off the phone with a new member from utah who can chip in if he wants

that was going to ship me hos motor for me to go thru

i asked hom how many miles 20k says he

does it make any noises nope says he

how does it run good says he

why are you sending it to me


cuz people on the forum tell him he should tear it all apart and go thru everything

so i tell him his motor might need a triple he says he has already done the mech seal and is going to adjust the timimg chain

i gently (and no offense here) told him that the people telling him it needed a complete tear down were also new to cxs and in fact while there

were quite a few that have there motors completely torn down NONE HAVE YET TO GET THEM BACK TO A RUNNING STATE

now while i have no doubts in the skills of these people and some of the i have been helping

it belies why we all love our cxs to think they need complete tear downs and inspections at low miles

do teh service work get on them and ride!!!

now the advice to all

read the posts of people that you think you need to take direction and advice from its like any other kind of shopping look around

see what they have done how long they have been doing it and if it has been successful

LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF POSTS a person has you may not want to listen to someone as adeptly that only has 3 posts over someone like blindstitch

that has almost 15k

last of all to new members

we at this forum think these bikes are awesome and we want to help anyone in teh world keep it running and we will all tell you that even though you dont know what

a crank shaft looks like you can overhaul your motor your self

now while that may be possible i can say it is not always true

so research everything before you start ask tons of questions read some more

then make sure its something you want to tackle and that you feel you have a high probability of doing

i but 3-7 bikes a year off the forum that are apart some thing broken and the whole project abandoned by over reaching

there are any members here who will even come help all you have to do is ask

so if you are not sure you can rebuild your brakes DONT DO IT ask for more help or get it done for you

all right i will shut up now !!\\

let the bashing begin

FLAME ON!

I've learned that lesson! After tearing apart my dads briggs and stratton from his tiller. My buddies and I were going to "soup it up", and put it on a tote got frame we found. I can guarantee that motor may have only needed the carbs rinsed out. Nothing more.

 

[Knute]

Guys. These bikes are simple well designed beasties.

Diagnose first, then fix the problem.

Typically, after a long rest. These bikes only need a few things adjusted, cleaned and replaced. Such as (but not limited to )........just follow the high mileage maintenance service in the FSM. It'll take you through just about everything. Remember, check the date codes on them old rubbers. Any 3 digit code is garbage. Any four digit code lower than ##09 is up for replacement.

My CX500C was a wrecked rough runner when I bought it in 2011 with 39,000 miles. It had sat for about 5 years. All it needed was coolant, oil/filter, air filter, valve adjust, plugs, carb clean/sync to make it run. Other problems began to pop up that were diagnosed and solved. Coils, mechanical seal, odd ball electrical gremlins, CDI (replace with Andy62 unit), tires, brakes, clutch, wheel bearing...... mechanical stuff. Then in 2013, I repaired the remaining cosmetic damage. I bought this horse for $850, spent another $800. Now, it runs and looks showroom new.

Never did open the engine. Bike now has 45,000 miles. Its approaching "middle age".

In short, Murray is right on target. Diagnose first, then fix/repair or replace as needed. Ride. Ride. Ride.
Don't assume because the bike is 30+ years old with 20,000 miles that it needs a complete gutting tear down to be a good ride. It may just need minor work.

 

[Madtwinhead]

Topman Murray... ditto