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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There are obviously loads of references to the triple bypass on this forum. Mostly referring to the non-turbo bikes.

I am pretty sure that by using the service manual and the site links, I can handle it and intend to document it as fully as possible.

As a top list of items do I have this correct?

Replace stator
Replace starter clutch
Replace water pump main seal
I have seen some references to oil pump work. Is this needed on a turbo? What gets replaced/serviced?

What am I missing? Is there anything else unique to a turbo?

Thanks and I will do my best to document how it goes.
 

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Check also, when the block is open, the Ne-sensors behind the waterpump when you do the triple bypass. Replacements are the LX579.
 

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1978 CX500 "The Grub", 1983 GL650I "Nimbus"
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Triple bypass usually refers to replacing the stator, camchain (and guides, if damaged), and the water pump seal (and camshaft oil seal while you're there.) Making it a quad bypass by including the springs, etc in the starter clutch is becoming more common.
Use OEM parts for the starter clutch. I put K&L springs in my GL650 this past May, and it's already beginning to skip on occasion.
 
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CX650 motor project into a CX500 Turbo Frame - ongoing
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Use OEM parts for the starter clutch. I put K&L springs in my GL650 this past May, and it's already beginning to skip on occasion.
I'm headed down the same road on my 650, and saw this on ebay, it's from 4into1 who usually does well on pricing but I thought it was stupid high, but the k&L kit is about $35

Product Font Automotive tire Household hardware Nut



Do we know if the rollers in the K&L kit are worthy or is it just the spring known to fail? Because the OEM springs are cheap.
 

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CX650 motor project into a CX500 Turbo Frame - ongoing
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Those spring caps, they want $17 each OEM -_- I thought it was the roller that was going to be expensive.
 

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1978 CX500 "The Grub", 1983 GL650I "Nimbus"
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You rarely need to replace the rollers and caps, usually just the springs. Check your caps for wear and the rollers for flat spots.
I might still have the new caps and rollers in the K&L kit.
 

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CX500 Turbo
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So as an attempt to fully document the whole thing for my 500T. Here is my parts list.....Couple of question in the notes/questions column in red but I think this is complete? Some of this is lifted from the Motofaction site (thanks guys) with some additions.

Item
Qty
Original Honda PN
Alternative numbers
Supplier
Notes/questions
Cam chain, tensioner, guide
Cam chain​
1​
14401-MA1-013
14401-415-003​
All models take the same chain. Do NOT buy used​
Tensioner blade, auto models​
1​
14511-MC7-000​
Guide blade, auto models​
1​
14620-MC7-000​
Gaskets
Front cover gasket​
1​
11391-449-306​
11391-449-700​
Only needed if servicing the oil pump. Are there any oil pump issues need attention? In full gasket set.
Clutch cover gasket​
1​
11372-449-306​
11372-449-700, 11372MC7000​
Only needed if replacing the clutch outer guide or servicing the oil pump. In full gasket set.
Rear cover gasket​
1​
11394-449-306​
11394-449-701​
Thickness critical - 0.8mm required. In full gasket set.
Pulser cover gasket - TI 500 and all 650 models​
1​

30373-MC7-000​
30373-MC7-306p​
No need to change for alternator swap. Just remove rear cover.​
Exhaust gasket​
2​
18291-286-306​
Goes between the head and the exhaust header. 2 in full gasket set
Exhaust gasket​
2​
18291-286-306​
Goes between the header and H-box​
Exhaust gasket​
2​
18392-MG7-750​
18392-413-000​
Goes between the H-box and silencers​
O-rings and seals
External water pipe O-ring​
1​
91302-415-003​
For 650 motors​
External water pipe O-ring​
1​
91301-MB6-003​
21.9x2.3 - For 500 motors​
Water pump cover O-ring​
1​
11396-415-000​
127x3, 126x3 or 128x3.5 O-rings fits as well, if the OEM part is unavailable. In full gasket set.
Shift shaft seal​
1​
-​
Rear cover water transfer pipe O-rings​
2​
94608-50000​
23x2.8mm​
Inspection cover O-ring​
2​
91302-001-020​
27.5mm O-rings do not fit - part number 91302-001-000 and 91302-001-710 aren't correct. 30.8mm is correct. One for inspection cover on rear cover, one for front cover. You don't strictly have to replace them but most of them are well and truly flat by now. In full gasket set.​
Camshaft oil seal​
1​
91202-283-013​
18x28x6. Fits behind waterpump impeller with sealing washer.​
Mechanical Seal​
1​
19217-611-000​
19217657023​
I have found two references to this (see below), not sure which fits?
Mechanical seal
Cheaper Alternative​
1​
11H-12438-10-00​
eBay, BB, PZ
See above comment
Oil pipe O-rings​
2​
91301-268-020​
Fit under front cover - one above clutch, one on oil pump - DO NOT OMIT - 13.6x2.4​
1​
91306-HB3-003​
PZ
Don't omit this either! See image below for where it should go.
Rear cover
Dowels​
2​
94301-10160​
May be necessary if these are damaged/corroded​
Gear shift spring​
1​
24623-415-000​
eBay
May be necessary if it gets stretched on rear cover removal​
Stator
Stator: G47, CDI​
1​
31120-415-005​
Lots of choices here. Best one? Any suggestions?
Starter clutch
Starter clutch spring​
3​
28125-516-030​
Strongly recommend ONLY using Honda springs
Starter clutch Torx bolts​
3​
90010-KCJ-690​
PZ
If you remove them, replace with new. No need to remove unless they are loose or have shifted​
Water pump/impeller – cover
Copper crush washer​
1​
90441-706-000​
-​
Sensors
Ne sensors​
2​
LX579​
Behind water pump​
Tools
Clutch holder​
07923-3710000,​
07923 – 4610000​
Only needed for clutch issues.​
Cam gear holder​
07924MC70000​
07924-4150000​

Oil orifice O ring location...
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Gear Alloy wheel Bicycle part


Have I missed anything?

Most of the gaskets come in a full gasket set but some are missing. Check carefully.
 

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CX650 motor project into a CX500 Turbo Frame - ongoing
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I'm going through the same pains as you Kev on my 650. There is a gasket set that looks like it's from the 90s that -should- include every gasket needed for the rebuild but do at least order the head gaskets from Murray's as the ones in kits are supposedly crap and also follow the re-tightening procedure. My plan was to order the rebuild kit, plus the head gaskets from Murray's and possibly the case seals as his are better quality and black. I can't stand outer seals that aren't black. So basically I'd order the kit below just so I didn't have to order each individual o-ring and seal.



Font Screenshot Automotive tire Technology Parallel



The kits have me worried though as I don't know the quality of the seals so I'm still debating ordering individually and possibly OEM wherever available.
 

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@MadforitKev

Rectangle Font Parallel Circle Number



So the OEM one will literally just pop into place but they were/are hard to find or more expensive:


The above is OEM and says it's for an '82 CX500 Turbo and is $45. The list you're using has two different part numbers...the first number (19217-611-000) doesn't list the turbo model and is $80 so the 19217-657-023 one is the one you need. Alternative methods include pulling the rubber seal from a new one and gluing it into your metal part (called shep method) so you don't have to press the metal out, just look up shep method.

Honestly I'd go OEM using partzilla or other database to make sure the part fits a turbo model. OEM is $45 and the cheaper alternative Yamaha is $30, if you were not pulling the case apart shep method is great but since you're pulling it apart anyway pressing one in isn't a big deal. Murray has one for $17 but does not list as being for the turbo model.

Being your turbo model is not common you will have to be careful about double checking the parts fit a turbo model and because the members here might not have a lot of experience with turbos specifically you might find responses slower and information more scarce. I like to use parts diagrams to check part numbers first rather than trust ebay listings.

Your question about best stator falls into that category of 'I can find an answer but it's for a non-turbo' sort of thing. I can see they have different parts numbers, 31120-MC7-005 for turbo and 31120-MA1-005 NA. Both the 650 and 500 turbos show a different part number for the stator than NA 500 and 650s of the same years.

The only visible difference I see is the 5 holes vs 3 holes (3 holes on the 5 hole look the same though), and a groove cut across the inside circumference. I could imagine the windings are different? Otherwise they'd list 1982 CX500c stators and 1982 CX500 turbo stators in the same listing.

But what's confusing is the Motofaction review on the CX500/650 NA Caltric stator shows the grooved 5 hole one that caltric lists below for the CX500 turbo, so I'm starting to think the metal cores are irrelevant. Pics from ebay show OEM turbo 500 stators as having 3 holes and smooth inside circumference. (The one below for the NA CX500 is pre-wired)

Turbo:

Product Automotive tire Font Rim Circle




NA:


Light Product Automotive tire Tire Wheel


I'm going to buy the Caltric one for my CX650c motor, ($55ish) their prices are low and people seem to have had good luck with them. Rick's are still about $150, I think Caltric just keeps dropping their price from years ago because the part isn't selling.
 

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The US based turbo guys would recommend having your stator done by Custom Rewind in the USA. Custom rewind pots their stators in epoxy which increases the life expectancy. I'm sure that there must be a good stator re-winder in the UK.
 

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There's no difference in fit between the OEM water pump mechanical seal and the commonly used Yamaha part. They likely come from the same supplier.
 
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There's no difference in fit between the OEM water pump mechanical seal and the commonly used Yamaha part. They likely come from the same supplier.
Do they fit a turbo though? I was thinking there was a different seal for the turbo model than NA from the parts numbers being different.
 

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Do they fit a turbo though? I was thinking there was a different seal for the turbo model than NA from the parts numbers being different.
If you look up the water pump seal on a site such as Partzilla you will find a list of models wich also use that part. In this case,
This Honda 19217-657-023 MECHANICAL SEAL fits the following models and components:
Aftermarket Parts Engine Gaskets and Seals Water Pump Gasket
Honda Motorcycle 1983 CR80R A Right Crankcase Cover / Water Pump
Honda ATV 1985 ATC250R A WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1981 CR125R A -ELSINORE WATER PUMP
Honda ATV 1986 TRX250R A - FOURTRAX 250R WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2006 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2004 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1986 CN250 AC - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1984 CH125 A - ELITE 125 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1985 CH150 A - ELITE 150 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1985 CH150 AC - ELITE 150 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1985 CH150D A - ELITE 150 DELUXE WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1985 CH250 A - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1983 CR125R A WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1984 CR250R A WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1981 CR250R A - ELSINORE WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1987 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1987 CH150 AC - ELITE 150 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2005 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2000 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1986 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1986 CH150D A - ELITE 150 DELUXE WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1986 CH150D AC - ELITE 150 DELUXE WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1985 CH250 AC - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1994 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1997 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1987 CN250 AC - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1988 CH250 A - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1990 NS50F A WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1992 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1998 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1987 CH250 A - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1986 CH250 AC - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1985 CH150D AC - ELITE 150 DELUXE WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1984 CH125 AC - ELITE 125 WATER PUMP
Honda ATV 1986 ATC250R A WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1986 CH250 A - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1987 CH150 A - ELITE 150 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1988 CH250 AC - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1999 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2007 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2010 SH150I AC - SH150I WATER PUMP
Honda ATV 1987 TRX250R A - FOURTRAX 250R WATER PUMP
Honda ATV 1989 TRX250R A - FOURTRAX 250R WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1983 CR250R A WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2010 SH150I A - SH150I WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1987 CH250 AC - ELITE 250 WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 2001 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1993 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1995 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Scooter 1996 CN250 A - HELIX WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1982 CR250R A WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1982 CR125R A WATER PUMP
Honda ATV 1988 TRX250R A - FOURTRAX 250R WATER PUMP
Honda Motorcycle 1983 GL650I A - SILVER WING INTERSTATE Water Pump / Pulse Generator
Honda Motorcycle 1983 CX650T A - 650 TURBO Water Pump / Pulse Generator
Honda Motorcycle 1983 CX650C A - CUSTOM Water Pump / Pulse Generator
Honda Motorcycle 1983 GL650 A - SILVER WING Water Pump / Pulse Generator
Honda Motorcycle 1982 CX500TC A - 500 TURBO Water Pump / Pulse Generator
Honda Motorcycle 2004 NSR50R A - MINI 50 Waterpump
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've updated my list and checked all availability and Uk pricing. Most of the parts are available through David Silver.

Item
Qty
Original Honda PN
Alternative numbers
In gasket set
Supplier
Notes/questions
Price
Cam chain, tensioner, guide
Cam chain​
1​
14401-MA1-013
14401-415-003​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
All models take the same chain. Do NOT buy used​
£46.80​
Tensioner blade, auto models​
1​
14511-MC7-000​
BEFBBMC7000p​
£19.95​
Guide blade, auto models​
1​
14620-MC7-000​
BEGCAMC7000p​
£21.50​
Gaskets
Front cover gasket​
1​
11391-449-306​
11391-449-700​
Y​
Only needed if servicing the oil pump​
Clutch cover gasket​
1​
11372-449-306​
11372-449-700, 11372MC7000​
Y​
Only needed if replacing the clutch outer guide or servicing the oil pump​
Rear cover gasket​
1​
11394-449-306​
11394-449-701​
Y​
Thickness critical - 0.8mm required
Pulser cover gasket - TI 500 and all 650 models​
1​

30373-MC7-000​
30373-MC7-306p​
N​
Ebay?​
No need to change for alternator swap. Just remove rear cover. Discontinued….​
Exhaust gasket​
2​
18291-286-306​
BJCKB286306P​
Y​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
Goes between the head and the exhaust header​
£3.00​
Exhaust gasket​
2​
18291-286-306​
BJCKB286306P​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
Goes between the header and H-box​
£3.00​
pair​
Exhaust gasket​
2​
18392-MG7-750​
18392-413-000, BJDKCM7750p​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
Goes between the H-box and silencers​
£14.28​
pair​
O-rings and seals
External water pipe O-ring​
1​
91302-415-003​
N​
For 650 motors​
£4.15​
External water pipe O-ring​
1​
91301-MB6-003​
N​
21.9x2.5 - For 500 motors. Not sure what this is for on a turbo? Std CX only?​
£2.26​
Water pump cover O-ring​
1​
11396-415-000​
Y​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
127x3, 126x3 or 128x3.5 O-rings fits as well, if the OEM part is unavailable
£6.12​
Washer seal​
1​
90441706000​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
Back of water pump impeller​
£1.20​
Shift shaft seal​
1​
91251-ZW5-003​
KBCFBZW5003p​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
-​
£3.30​
Rear cover water transfer pipe O-rings​
2​
94608-50000​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
23x2.8mm​
£3.60​
pair​
Inspection cover O-ring​
2​
91302-001-020​
Y​
27.5mm O-rings do not fit - part number 91302-001-000 and 91302-001-710 aren't correct. 30.8mm is correct. One for inspection cover on rear cover, one for front cover. You don't strictly have to replace them but most of them are well and truly flat by now.​
Camshaft oil seal​
1​
91202-283-013​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
18x28x6. Fits behind waterpump impeller with sealing washer​
Mechanical Seal​
1​
19217657023​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
£51.60​
Oil pipe O-rings​
2​
91301-268-020​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
Fit under front cover - one above clutch, one on oil pump - DO NOT OMIT - 13.6x2.4​
£5.06​
pair​
1​
91306-HB3-003​
N​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
Don't omit this either! See here for where it should go. 8 x 1.7​
£1.78​
Rear cover
Dowels​
2​
94301-10160​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
May be necessary if these are damaged/corroded​
£5.12​
pair​
Gear shift spring​
1​
24623-415-000​
eBay?​
May be necessary if it gets stretched on rear cover removal. Discontinued……..​
Stator
Stator: G47, CDI​
1​
31120-415-005​
Lots of choices here. Best one? Any suggestions?​
Starter clutch
Starter clutch spring​
3​
28125-516-030​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
Strongly recommend ONLY using Honda springs
£6.71
3​
Starter clutch Torx bolts​
3​
90010-KCJ-690​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
If you remove them, replace with new. No need to remove unless they are loose or have shifted​
£9.71​
3​
Water pump/impeller – cover
Copper crush washer​
1​
90441-706-000​
DS (UK), DS (US)​
-​
£1.20​
Sensors
Ne sensors​
2​
LX579​
Ebay, Google​
Behind water pump​
£122.56​
pair​


The only weird thing I cant track down on CMSL or DS is ........I can't see what it does? Standard CX only?

External water pipe O-ring​
1​
91301-MB6-003​

I am pretty happy with the list now. Just got to find a good UK Stator.
 

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If you look up the water pump seal on a site such as Partzilla you will find a list of models wich also use that part. In this case,
This Honda 19217-657-023 MECHANICAL SEAL fits the following models and components:
Aftermarket Parts Engine Gaskets and Seals Water Pump Gasket
Honda Motorcycle 1983 CR80R A Right Crankcase Cover / Water Pump
I am exactly aware of what you do, as it's exactly what I did and posted about earlier today. The seal listed for the CX500 Turbo is not the seal listed for the CX500 non-turbo going by the list. The Yamaha seal, to my knowledge, -can be- used on the CX500 non-turbo, hence my question to Randall about him suggesting the Yamaha seal since the OP is dealing with a CX500 turbo.

I was asking someone to clarify that the turbo and nonturbo's get different mechanical seals. Occasionally, almost in the example of the Yamaha seal, two models will use the exact same part with different part numbers. Honda is pretty good about not having two parts that are physically identical so I would assume Turbos and non-turbos get different seals.





@MadforitKev

Yes, your turbo model's side water pipe uses clamp and hose connections, the others fit inside with an o-ring.

Yours:

Font Parallel Circle Slope Line art
 

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Mike's list above shows both the naturally aspirated CX/GL650 and the 500 and 650 Turbos. I have no direct experience with the Turbo models, but I do know the naturally aspirated 500s and 650s use the same seal.
Some time around 1980, Honda changed their spec on those seals, I believe, to adopt a slightly larger, less expensive, off-the-shelf part. Unless you happen upon an NOS part from before 1980, the larger size is all that is available. By the time of the 650s and Turbos, the larger size was used in production.
 
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The source of my confusion was this from motofaction on their list of triple bypass parts needed:

Azure Font Rectangle Screenshot Number



19217-611-000 is listed as being the OEM seal for some 1982 and all earlier NA CX500s on both partzilla and CMS but Motofaction says this seal is the larger one. Is the motofaction description wrong or are the parts people listing something that technically doesn't fit? It's also twice the price, making me think it's the more rare smaller seal.

19217-657-003 is listed for GL650s oddly but >

19217-657-023 is listed for CX650 and CX650 Turbos, GL650s, and Turbo 500s and CMS has it for a some 1982 CX500s (indicating it's the larger one) but partzilla has it only for the Turbo CX500. This seems to me the part everyone is ordering, not the 611 one. It has ribs on the polo mint part and the sealant around the metal. It's also cheaper than the 611 one and identical to the 11H yamaha alternative.

Should the motofaction page reflect a different part number/description or am I just overthinking it? I would guess since turbo 500 and CX650 work is less common they listed the smaller OEM CX500 seal since there are more of them out there. It's like they listed the smaller OEM part number but with an annotation about the bigger -023 seal.

I'm probably rubbing some people the wrong way with the way I over think and I'm sorry for being irritating but I don't like lists with contradictory information :)

Perhaps if @MadforitKev is super nice, he can create a parts list for the CX500 Turbo people when he's done.
 
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